GCSE extra time allowed

[jenkel]

A bit of a rant here, feel that we have let our dd down a little and it may be too late to do anything about it. Well here goes.

DD is a late august bday and had always struggled at school, she doesn't find school easy, lacks confidence and is very quiet. Her reading age has always been below her actual age, Her predicted gcse grades are passes, just about, mocks backed this up.

Anyway had just come to our attention that you can request actual time in the exams, well if there ever was s candidate for this I would think it would be our dd. Even though she has never been diagnosed with any form of learning dissability or is under Senco.

I'm not sure I strictly agree with it though, feel that it should be a level playing field for all children regardless of any issues (but that's without thinking it through to much, don't want to get into a argument over that). Actually I think if we had pushed we could probably get her diagnosed with something.

Anyway it has come to light that loads of kids do this at her school, even ones that are grade 1 students with also no diagnosis. Her best friend who is a straight grade 1 student has been awarded this extra time and she is a sept birthday, so almost a clear year older than our dd and a very intelligent child.

We are trying to get my dd awarded this extra time but it looks like now it is too late. We didn't even know this was an option.

So we feel a bit let down by the school and a bit cheated by the education system/exam system. How can straight grade 1 students get this and grade 4/5 students with a low reading age not get it. Is it a case of who shouts the loudest?

Any thoughts please, thanks.

You are not listening. There is no 'massive abuse of the system'. People have repeatedly told you how very difficult it is to qualify to get extra time in exams, and how very stringent the test are. No child WITH NO SPECIAL NEEDS gets extra time. All the kids with no SEN/Learning difficulties ARE in the same boat as your daughter.

And quite a few who do have SEN issues are too. As a teacher of 30 odd years experience I can think of several pupils I teach who I believe are dyslexic/have visual stress/need extra processing time.

We refer those we pick up. Some have still been turned down. Most don't get the extra time. It's not possible to 'cheat' your way to it.

Did I miss the posts that said it proved there was massive abuse? I can't see any that said that??

No, you don't get extra time simply by flunking a test. Schools have to provide evidence that its the student's normal way of working and that they would be disadvantaged by not having it. For example, every time my exam classes sit a test I have to give the ones who are being considered for extra time the extra time. They switch pen colour and when I mark it I mark it once with no extra time and again with extra time. The papers are then collated as evidence for the extra time application alongside details of how they are supported in class with their need for extra time.

Students can be bright and still need more time than their peers in an exam to display their abilities. A less academic student still wouldn't be able to answer a difficult question even with an extra ten minutes.

If your DD is in Y11 it is probably too late now as the deadline for applications is imminent.

Just to give you an example of a very able student with no 'visible' SEN who I have taught, who had extra time -he has Aspergers and achieved a grade 7 in my subject (A grade) at GCSE. However, he was rigorously tested and his condition meant that his processing and speed were slower. TBH in all the cases I have heard of 'cheating' I have never heard of anyone getting ET unfairly.....

we have always struggled in getting my dd the help we feel that she needed

Why do you feel she needed help?

Maybe she is just of below average ability. We are not all academics.

She lacks confidence in class, so won't ask if she doesn't understand and the class moves on, found huge gaps in her knowledge because of this. We have had to pay for a maths tutor for quite a few years. And this has highlighted the huge gaps, so we are getting there with maths and made huge improvements but just can't afford other tutors. She is quite, well behaved and in a class setting very easy to ignore. Frustrating for us, but she feels silly and stupid asking for help. I guess my dd is one where the state education system doesn't work, perhaps she would have been better home educated, but I feel as a parent that I was not equipped to do this, and there are tons of other benefits of school life.

My dad maths teacher, who is head of maths is the one that has just suggested it and then she came back to us to say it is too late, obviously one of her teachers feels she could benefit and she is not just average as others here have said.

And this other child has no educational needs of any type and her parents are amazed that she can swing it but good on her, so based on that alone how can I rationalze it.

My DD has a friend (Yr11) who is dyslexic and gets extra time in every exam (has done since Yr7). She is a straight A student across all subjects apart from a language which she dropped, she does struggle sometimes with spelling is extremely articulate and her work ethos is extraordinary hence the A's. I think she would probably get A*'s without the extra time but its there for her.

You can have SEN and still be incredibly bright ...

the girl in question is a straight 9 grade

Well that's remarkable in itself!

If it's too late, it's too late.

I'm currently having the school look at my DS for extra time, but honestly I don't think it will help him. The exams seem to offer plenty of time an only exceptional DC will benefit.

My DD is severely dyslexic and didn't qualify for extra time in her SATs so I'm not convinced Ezra time is handed out willy nilly.

OP stop focusing on other people. If this truly is about your DD then you have no reason to compare her help in school with anyone else's.

We have had to pay for a maths tutor for quite a few years. And this has highlighted the huge gaps, so we are getting there with maths and made huge improvements but just can't afford other tutors.

Right, an ongoing problem for years, why have school not done anything to help?

If after years of having a maths tutor she is only 'getting there' I would say this really is an ability issue and nothing more. I'm not sure how you think a little bit of extra time in an exam is going to make any difference whatsoever of years of tutoring hasn't much.

I do suspect this post is more about you thinking your child should have because someone else's does.

Lacking confidence is not a reason for extra time. Did you look up the JCQ regulations I advised upthread?
As a parent you can request testing for exam consideration via the SENDCO at school. They will ask for a reason. They will ask teachers for supporting evidence and, if appropriate, test. The closing date for this year is 21 February, I think, but don't forget that half term is coming up and staff won't be coming in to test your dd in the holidays.
There is nothing that you have said so far that indicates a need for extra time.
As I said earlier, if you suspect school has awarded special consideration unfairly, contact the exam board and they'll investigate.

A grade 1 is a pass. It is not a strong pass or a standard pass, but it is a GCSE qualification. I hate this writing off of three grades, and the children who work hard to get them. If we could just refer to grades there would be less confusion.

I haven't read the full thread but if she's due to sit exams this year you're far too late. Extra time or any concession at all needs to be what the child does in normal lessons. It needs to be their normal way of working. It's absolutely not for children who find things a bit tricky.

JCQ have very strict rules on it. Look them up if you're interested but yes..you are far too late.

There are a lot of students who will get access arrangements for a whole range of needs not just sen. I got 25% Extra time in my exams and was targeted As and A*s. I was not under then senco and did not have sen. However a medical condition not obvious to anyone looking at me meant I qualified.

please don't compare your child. You have no idea what other children are going through or the issues they may be facing. There is far more too it than failing a mock.

As a parent how has applied for a statement before for a child, believe me it is very difficult to get one, without all of the teachers support.
You need 2 years of evidence of continuous failing to achieve their supposed grades from their CAT scores, this is just one example to be considered to meet the criteria.
I myself am dyslexic, and I needed the extra time in exams to get the grades I got...I'm now very successful in my career, but I still have to work very hard to overcome my dyslexia everyday.
So I'm sorry, but having a SENCO need, where the CAT results show they have the ability over how they perform, over an August child who is quiet, and will not speak out is not a SENCO child. Some children just do not get A grades.

I’ve just st got back from parents evening. Ds is predicted Grade 8 in maths. Ds is autistic but he doesn’t get extra time for that. He will get extra time/laptop use because he has dysfluent handwriting caused by hypermobile joints, a physical problem. He also has slow speed of information processing meaning that his brain takes longer to take in & act on information but because he scored just st above 84, that alone doesn’t entitle him to anything.

The handwriting tests are not easy to fail, they are meant to trip you up if you are doing it deliberately.

It may be that your daughter has undiagnosed SEN or it may be she just has gaps in her knowledge.

Incidentally he’s also predicted a Grade 2/3 in English because hecfinds it hard to write his thoughts down no amount of extra time will help with that.

My DD is in yr 10 but she had a whole morning of testing last year with regards to extra time. She has processing problems and she also had dystonia which is a neurological problem where her hand cramps and she is in constant pain when writing. This means she writes slowly and has to stop often. To look at her though you would say she is like any other pupil and why should she have extra time? You can't always see what is happening below the surface. Not all disabilities are visible.

You are conflating two issues here.
Your DD may well have been let down by the school, they may have failed to check that her learning issues were not specific rather than general (eg particularly slow writing speed and processing speed, rather than just less academically able). Maybe she should have had extra time, none of us know your DD so we can't answer that.

On the other hand, a straight level 9 student with no problems at all would not be entitled to extra time. It has to be demonstrated that extra time makes a significant difference if the child has a registered disability (eg autism) . If they don't have a disability they have to be assessed and demonstrated to fall below a certain level in their writing and processing speeds. No doubt there are one or two cases where people have somehow cheated but there isn't widespread abuse of the system. If anything, there are too many youngsters not getting extra time who would qualify. The cut off for writing/ processing is at 15th percentile. Do 15 percent get extra time? Not in most schools I think.

If there are kids with no SEN getting extra time then the school is cheating. It is so bloody hard to get special arrangements these days

I agree other children's needs aren't your concern

Has she been tested for Dyslexia?

Lack of confidence
Slow processing speed
Feeling stupid
My asking for help

They are all traits - look up 37 signs of dyslexia

I get extra time in my exams, and I can concur with pp that most people do not actually use the extra time they are given, because if you don't know the answer, you don't know. I've always used every minute of my extra time. I am always so embarrassed when people find out about the extra time (I'm currently at Uni), I can tell some of them don't understand why I have it, or think it's unfair, or think I don't need it. But it's none of their business and I get tired of having to justify myself, because yeah I'm really smart, one of the top in my cohort, but I also have hidden needs that they don't.

Actually when I did my GCSE's I didn't have the extra time as my school refused to acknowledge my problems, branding me as 'lazy' because I was apparently too intelligent to have SEN. Fortuitously I broke my elbow right before exams so got the extra time anyway.

As an aside having 25% extra time for a three hour exam which then becomes a 3hr 45min exam is exhausting.

I teach a student who has got grade 8s in her mocks. She has extra time.
I put her forward ti be assessed last year because there was a disconnect between what she was doing verbally and what she was achieving in the exam. Aka. Her exam wasn't accurately reflecting her ability. She was assessed and granted extra time due to processing issues.

We have students in the school who are getting grade 3s and 4s. They don't get extra time because there's no need and we can't just say 'they find things difficult so should have more time' otherwise why bother havung exams abd grades.

It sounds to me like you want to get extra time because you think it's not fair that someone else has it. It would be fine fir nobody ti have it but you're almost suggesting that students like my grade 8 studnets shouldn't have it because they get 8s ajd your child should have it because they are summer born and find it a bit tough.

Thr 25% extra time my grade 8 student gets levels the playing field. The student knows their stuff but has an issue. A child who doesn't get the literary texts gets additional benefit of having extra time. It's not like my grade 8 student is stealing marks from someone else because they get a bit more time.

I struggle to believe that a bright kid with no SEN would even be tested for extra time never mind get it.

Dd is bright. She’s also dyslexic. She was tested and was then allowed extra time in her GCSEs. Even without the extra time she would probably have done better than the majority of kids at her school (school was crap with awful results so not hard), however she wouldn’t have achieved what she could/would have done if she wasn’t dyslexic. The extra time is meant to compensate for the dyslexia. She used her extra time in all her exams (she said). And actually still ran out of time in some.

As a SENCo and a specialist teacher qualified to test for dyslexia and extra time, I will tell you this. Your child has been let down by the school as they should have screened her reading when she started in Year 7 and referred for further testing. If you thought she was underachieving you should have asked to speak to the Senso yourself. Too late for that now as the deadline for applications is in less than two weeks and by then she should have been tested and used arrangements she might be eligible for for at least six weeks. What you can do now is find an external assessor who will contact the Senco on your behalf and ask about her reading difficulties, then test her and if she is eligible, press the school to implement extra time and put in a late application. Sounds like your school is not great at helping her so they will tell you it is too late but you are in with a chance if you kick up a fuss.
I have met sencos who have little idea and are not actual specialists, especially if they are old school/very long in the post and no recent training. State schools lack resources and too many children fall through the cracks. It is late but you might have a case so find a specialist and fight for your child. Google educational psychologists in your area.

I struggle to believe that a bright kid with no SEN would even be tested for extra time never mind get it
I've seen parents try.
Maybe it's just my school but we have a number of students who are given very precise directions on what to revise, how to revise, how to do the paper and they are too busy with whatever else is going on to listen. Then it gets to this feb-easter of y11 and suddenly we get phonecalls in saying DC finds it difficult to answer the questions in exam conditions. Can we apply for extra time... um, no. Their issue is their exam technique and they've ignored all direction. If they were trying the strategies and struggling I'd have put them to be assessed in year 10. We raised this issue for the last 18 months and you expressed no concerns but now chickens are coming home to roost suddenly you want a SEND assesssment.

Same for perfectly normal exam nerves to translate to DC has anxiety and is scared of sitting in the sports hall/main hall with everyone. Their friend also has anxiety and gets to sit their exam in a smaller room. Can DC do that?
Some years of late we have had 15 rooms being used and last minute parent diagnosis of anxiety has increased.

Our school is pretty good with SEND and getting access arrangements but we do have some ridiculous last minute requests in y11 which translate as 'DC hasn't really worked hard so we want a bit of a helping hand / DC has nerves but it's the in thing in our social circle for everyone to claim anxiety'. We don't assess them. We do loads from y7 upwards and are really proactive working with parents but we don't entertain this 'last minute try to push for a little bit of extra time / separate setting'.

Thank you to the last post. I will take your advice and investigate further.

My dd is confident/chatty out of school, in school she is a different child. She seems to have huge problems getting things down on paper, if it was a verbal exam I feel that she would do well, and I do feel extra time would help her compile her thoughts and get them on to paper, appreciate though that it could be too late. Her class work is always good and she gets much better results than what she ever does in exams.