Secondary school without Rugby

[westwood2016]

Happy new year! We are looking for a high level academic and sporty secondary school WITHOUT Rugby. Our two DS are currently in a prep school where rugby is dominating their lives, which was ok until they probably both got mild concussion following a knock on the head. We have been worried about them since they started contact rugby 3 years ago, now we have seen the consequences first hand, which could potentially be desastrous. We are ready to put a stop to Rugby, although they both live and breathe for the sport, which makes it very difficult. We live in Buckinghamshire but would be ready to move within the county or closer to London, should we find a school which offers other sports as well as having a high academic level. Many thanks in advance.

westwood you make interesting points and I think it has to be accepted that allowing our DC’s to participate in any sport which has a well documented risk attached comes down to personal choice.
With regard to skiing at the end of the day it doesn’t really matter how you injury is caused, I personally don’t ski as I don’t fall well (although I have ridden all my life I am very reluctant to fall off) but like most people know friends that do I’m shocked by the seriousness and type of injuries they have had for a sport that they do usually 2 weeks of the year max. Without going into too many details I have seen very significant life changing injuries/accidents in friends who ski I can’t say Ive ever seen these type of injuries in those playing rugby.
I guess I’m lucky my DS’s are not team sports players and for personal reasons one will never ski and the other is not interested. So I’ve never had to worry about it, but one rides and the stats imply it is a highish risk sport and both cycle on roads and that is a high risk activity 3000+ deaths or serious injuries a year although only approx 100 deaths. I strongly discourage an interest in motorbikes which statistics demonstrate make rugby look like a teddy bears tea party when it comes to risk of life changing/life threatening injury approx 360 deaths a year and 5000+ serious injuries
Having said this I rightly or wrongly take the view that there is risk in sobmany aspects of life I guess it’s what level of risk we’re comfortable with and perhaps what our previous experiences are; in another life (when I wasn’t tired greying and slightly overweight) I used to be very involved in the horrendous injuries bikers sustained in the Super Bike at Brands so have a bit of a thing about motorbikes.
Regarding Dr Pollocks book the stats I found said jockeys have the highest risk of CTE. Although as we all know that stats can be with careful interpretation can be made to support an argument (by both sides) but it also needs to be acknowledged that NHS England currently are not supporting a ban on rugby union for school children.

My son got out of rugby at his secondary school by taking up rowing. It worked out very well and it was the making of him. He became very driven and organised and his school work improved dramatically as well. I was delighted all round and also meant I never had to stress about rugby injuries.

Sorry should have said jockeys have the highest incidence of head injuries not CTE.

You should probably avoid a school which plays football too as studies are showing that repeated heading of the ball causes similar damage.

Im laughing at Hockey as the alternative.
Back in the 80s a friend ( aged about 20) gave up rugby because his DM was worried about concussion and moved to hockey.

First game he got whacked in the eye, 6 stitches and another concussion

Having watched rugby and football at prep and public schools, I've seen almost as many head injuries from football as rugby!!

We are facing a similar problem OP. DS1 hates rugby, but it's compulsory. DS2 loves it and is unfortunately quite good at it, so I'm also starting to look for schools where it isn't played. Unfortunately I haven't found one yet.

Good luck OP. I hope you find a suitable school.

Having watched rugby and football at prep and public schools, I've seen almost as many head injuries from football as rugby!!

Then they aren't doing it right. I've watched football for years and never seen a head injury. Other injuries yes buy not heads.

Westwood "some of what i see on the pitches (i recently became coach at rugby in order to be closer to my boys and understand the game/risks better) is sometimes so violent, brutal and not normal for kids of 8/10 years old."

Not my experience. DS is at an independent school and they play tag rugby up to year 7.

Football is also looking like it will come out no better in the longterm as the effects of headers is examined. inews.co.uk/culture/television/alan-shearer-dementia-football-me/

I could not find the very shocking article I had read about damage to brains of American football players but this should do for now:

www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/07/25/sports/football/nfl-cte.html

Re Shearer: in fairness footballs weigh less now, but clashes of heads after a corner are not uncommon. All sport carries risks, the question is what is acceptable. I am glad my kids (a St John's ambulance person once told me that womens' rugby can be more dangerous, in part because women tend not to have had the same exposure to skills and safety training that boys who go through youth programmes have) opted for football and did not go to rugby playing schools.

City of London School for boys? I may be out of date but I thought that it too didn't do rugby - though things can change so do check.

(By the way you're certainly not the only person who has ruled out schools on basis of rugby - safety issues again. Though I do see the point about football and headers.)

Also Alleyn's (South London)? Again, check, but I have a feeling no rugby there. And Highgate I have a feeling also. Of course all of these involve moving to London, which I realise may not be your preference!

If you're in Bucks are you looking at grammar schools - and if so do they mostly do football rather than rugby?

All sports can be dangerous, we know of a friends son who walks with crutches, because he was tackled badly at football, or MIL's friend who is in a wheelchair after falling of her horse. Our school lost a pupil on a skiing holiday when a loose ski hit the girls head. This a rough Yorkshire comprehensive, no more skiing holidays. Sadly people drown swimming.
The culture of rugby, I think I better put on flame proof clothing, my boys have played RL and eldest now RU, all very working class clubs, the RU club started as old boys from the town's secondary modern school.
We have no issues with bad behaviour, in fact all players and parents have to sign conduct forms at start of each season. Both boys played with girls up to 11. They have been and are regularly refereed by girls/women and are even more respectful to them, than the male referees. Most games are watched by mums, girlfriends and wife's.
Ds1 has been on numerous tours and stays with his rugby, alone from age of 10, we have never felt he was in any danger, at 12 they went on a midnight raid to wake up 14 year old girl guides, got scare of their life's when girls attack with water bombs. The guides complained, well leaders, all ten players, including Ds wrote letters apologizing. The following year girl guides came back on same weekend and both groups spent 4 days messing around together, Ds still in touch with a couple of them on facebook.
I fear the culture needmore speaks of is the rahrah end of rugby, especially privately educated boys/men with lots of money and a life time of privilege and been told you're are better than the rest. Cricket tour of Australia has had similar issues, Oxford/ Bristol universities and their private school clubs seem to hit the headlines ever year.
Ds1 looking to go to university this September, so his 3 chooses 1st- about 8% private has 3 rugby teams, shown around by people he knows from local clubs and girls team captain. 2nd choice- 5% private has both RL and RU, not RL heartland, shown around by girls team captain, who told students/parents that they are diverse team, no drinking culture and you will likely to be removed from your course if you act stupid. 3rd choice- new and less than 2% private, no rugby, either join local teams or start one yourself.
So think culture often comes from the players and their backgrounds, not the sport, especially where you have lots of money and privilege thrown together, which I suspect is the case for most on this thread and the universities your friend and your student DC's go to needmore
I know not all private school children are like this but sadly you do often meet them on rugby pitches, with their private school walk, ie my b*lls are bigger than ours.

User, we are on the same page. Rugby Clubs at DC's universities LSE and Bristol have had problems, and the friend suggested that the rugby players at his college, especially when seen through the eyes of an overseas student, enjoyed a similar reputation.

OP is looking for private schools. Another reason, perhaps, to avoid those that promote rugby. Football at University appears to be more diverse and accessible, though DS swerved the University set up and played in an informal 7 a side league, because he was not attracted by the drinking culture that seemed to pervade the AU.

needsmore we are. But I think it bloody depressing that on a national parenting forum, westwood2017 is advised to avoid rugby because A) its dangerous, no more so than any other sport numerous footballs can't walk due to injuries, B) there's a culture of "rich and privileged" tossers going around ruining all rugby image. when there as many drunken idiots at football, hockey, cricket and horse racing.
Ds1 has been to 3 open age events, Christmas, end of season and 2nd Christmas do's all have had alcohol and he's been on his own. joys of shift working parents. all adults where warn about their behaviour and told they would be released if they let themselves or the club down.

Yes Ds1 drinks. he will tell you bitter is disgusting, lager is worse, cider with fruit is his drink. Whiskey, rum and brandy awful and Gin is okay I suppose. Vodka not bad but strong. He has never been leg less, unlike mum and dad, and totally knows his limits, unlike similar age mum and dad. All learn in the confines of a safe and caring environment full of friends and responsible adults. Not in a seedy bar or club or with new people you have just met a university.
So I think the way to change any culture is from within, not to leave it to some knuckle dragging hair trolls.
we have never paid more than £95/season to play rugby, all 3 clubs have fully trained coaches, level1 to 4, all have had physios available to the players, when injured and they make call on when player returns, not player or coach. Ds1 played non stop rugby for 22 months and each season when he's been injured he has been phased back in to team, on advice of the physio, He is one of main players. His Yorkshire, requires improvement, comp was exactly the same.
If our under funded school and local clubs, which rely on player subs mainly, and help Ds1 to be National Schoolboys Champion and try and defend their title, 1st school ever, and win under17's Yorkshire ru league and losing finalist in cup, your not telling my world famous independent schools famed for their sport can't do sodding better
For Christ sake 80% of England's RU team went to Independent schools. I could get if weatwood2017 was avoiding state schools rugby but she isn't

"I fear the culture needmore speaks of is the rahrah end of rugby, especially privately educated boys/men with lots of money and a life time of privilege and been told you're are better than the rest."
"So think culture often comes from the players and their backgrounds, not the sport, especially where you have lots of money and privilege thrown together,"
User and Needmore its so easy to make generalisations and find news to back up our arguments but neither of you do yourself any favours by doing this. I can do the same; for years I lived up the road from Milwall and it doesn't the much searching the internet to find this and I could have given you loads more links and thats only one football club. I could from that extrapolate that many poor white working class football fans are football hooligans although my actual experience the area and those who support the club the tell me that this is not the case! As a horse rider and shock horror a supporter of the hunt I frequently have to listen to gross generalisations about those who participate in my my hobby, their perceived wealth, class etc. In real life I am just like everyone else.
Anyway user my actual experience over the years of privately educated boys playing RU and I have met loads of independently educated "what you might call "rahrah over privileged" boys with "lots of money" who play rugby union, is that one of the nicest boys I've ever met played for England, others played at country level, some for their school, of course there was the odd arrogant badly behaved one (as there is at Millwall) but the vast majority were kids like your DS, who just enjoyed the game and believed in playing it fairly behaving approrpiately and respecting other players.

An audit of our injuries at the end of a very busy season on the independent schools circuit a few years ago showed that we had few head injuries, fractures and dislocations were much more common. I agree hockey is not necessarily a viable alternative, neither is squash and similar it's surprising how many run into walls and hit their heads. Head injuries in rowing are obvioulsy not common but it doesn't suit all.

Heres a generalisation-Ben Stokes-he went to a comp and his dad played rugby league...hes turned out really well hasn't he!!
Take the sack of potatoes off your shoulder...User..

I am really surpirsed that your kids are playing contact rugby.

Ds school (state grammar) only does touch rugby until year 9, and then there is an option for either, basically the team plays contact.

I was under the impression that it was considered very bad practice for primary aged kids to play contact rugby.

I think I would be challenging the school in that to be honest.

The RFU allow tackling from u9,but not handoffs or ripping,so hard to imagine where the brutality and violence comes from..

"its so easy to make generalisations and find news to back up our arguments"

I was quite clear that I was reporting a conversation between my DC about their respective Universities, and simply pulled out press reports as evidence to back up an observation. DC are at two quite different Universities, but rugby club behaviour is seen as an outlier at both. I accept that the equivalents at your DCs Universities may behave like choirboys, but this is clearly not the case elsewhere.

I honestly did not have you down as a Peckham girl. And am surprised you are still facing problems, other than languishing towards the bottom of the Championship. DH and I have probably been to at least 30 football matches in the past couple of years (including the Den twice in the last three years - though did not spot anyone wearing a MN scarf) and really not seen any problems anywhere. (Again, as to be clear, observational so not a generalisation.) DH has also been to the Magic Weekend each of the last couple of years, and again no problems.

Not really a "Peckham Girl" or a girl with any interest in in football but I am ex Peckham resident of 13 years when Peckham was really at at its lowest, people laughed when removed there, I used to regularly see the police horses from Dulwich police station go to the Millwall home matches. I'm a nomad I don't really come from anywhere although my heart and soul lies in the ups and down of west Devon and north Dartmoor.
I've no idea how the equivalents at my DC's universities behave at rugby football or tiddlywinks but I suspect that many sports (maybe not tiddlywinks) have their problems.

I don't like the culture either. They may be polite to the ref on the pitch but so many can be absolute arseholes off the pitch.

So can hockey players, so can footballers, so can athletes.....

No sport is injury or idiot free.

Some of the worst injuries my DH has seen is from hockey.

I'm always incredulous when rugby parents claim that rugby creates respectful young men. This "respect" must stay on the pitch, it certainly doesn't show itself elsewhere. The rugby team at my university were exactly as needmore describes and worse. They were the most entitled, misogynistic, arrogant, unpleasant pack of thieving, cat calling neanderthals you've ever crossed the street to avoid. They trained by running up and down our staircase and stole food from our kitchen because we were on the top floor. Tossers. The university football teams were far less "in your face" and far less pack like, without the arrogance.

The rugby team at my university were exactly as needmore describes and worse. They were the most entitled, misogynistic, arrogant, unpleasant pack of thieving, cat calling neanderthals you've ever crossed the street to avoid. They trained by running up and down our staircase and stole food from our kitchen because we were on the top floor. Tossers. The university football teams were far less "in your face" and far less pack like, without the arrogance.

Well your experience is very very different to mine then.

Plus rugby isn't just played at universities.

Mr DSS has been picked on at school for watching and playing rugby rather than football. Some really quite nasty homophobic insults.

Every sport has idiots.

You should then avoid football & cricket too. No question. And what if they're on a horse & fall off. Or skiing?