Moving area, year admission for an oversubscribed school?

[Lollabonk]

We are considering moving from the South to Penrith, Cumbria.

DD is 12, very bright and currently in year 9 at a high performing secondary school.

The school we like (Queen Elizabeth Grammar School) is oversubscribed and selective. Apparently it’s rare for places to come up and there is a waiting list.

It’s the closest school to the house we like. Would it be incredibly difficult to secure her a place?

Thanks

That was meant to read ‘in year admission!’

Why don’t you ring the admissions officer and ask? Nobody here can speculate.

How come your daughter is 12 and in year 9? Normally they are 13-14 in year 9.

Sorry she’s in year 8 .

I have no experience with appeals or applying to oversubscribed schools and was hoping someone would have some advice/experiences to share.

If the school is already full in Y8 it is unlikely you will be offered a place. You would therefore be appealing for a place. You would need to show that the disadvantage to your daughter through not being admitted outweighs the problems the school will face through having to cope with another pupil. A case that your daughter needs a grammar school is unlikely to fly and the fact it is the closest school to home (assuming you get that house) is irrelevant for an appeal. You would need to show what this school offers your daughter that is not available from whichever school you are offered. I suspect you will find it very hard to win an appeal for this school. Sorry.

Thanks for your post.

She’s currently at a school with a heavy focus on performing arts. This is one of the reasons why we chose it. The school we are interested is also big in performing arts which would be great for DD.

We could possibly wait until the beginning of year 9 to move if it would be easier than attempting an in year transfer.

We really wouldn’t want to move if she couldn’t get a place at this school. We’re only happy to move if she can continue with the standard of education she gets here.

There are a few other very good schools in the area but again they are all oversubscribed.

But surely it will only be easier to get a place at the beginning of Yr 9 if people leave. Otherwise the school will still be over-subscribed.

You need to find out how each school that you are interested in manages it’s waiting list: in order of published admissions criteria for Yr 7, e.g proximity to school or 11+ test score....

You need to ask the school how they manage a waiting list for in-year admissions for students who haven’t taken the 11+.

Your options, if the schools are over-subscribed and full are waiting list, or as prh47 says, appeal.

They will have to offer her a school place somewhere, though. Where is the next nearest school and is it OK?

She will need to sit their entrance exam surely too?

This school is local to me. It's the only selective school in Cumbria and you won't get a place because there will already be too many children ahead of you on this list. Sorry.

Keswick School is very good - although also over subscribed so unlikely to get a place.

I know two children who moved to Penrith last year from another grammar area where they had both passed the 11+. One went in to the QES sixth form having finished Y11 at their previous school and the other took a place in Y10 at Ullswater Community College. They like it there and are happy and doing well. Their father is a teacher (in the grammar!) and wouldn't have moved them to a school unless he was assured they would continue to receive a good education.

You need to do a lot of research so that you understand the process and the schools admissions policy.

I did an in year transfer for my dd as we had been living abroad. We had to appeal and the whole thing was very difficult and it took a very long time. The panel who heard my appeal were interested in fire exits and square footage of the classrooms. It was all very detailed.

Thanks for your posts.

I’ve just had a look at how they mange their waiting lists. DD is eligible for pupil premium and that is second on the list after looked after children.

She also scored very high on her 11+ which is another criteria.

I didn’t realise this was going to be so difficult

If Pupil Premium has the next priority after LAC and she scored very high then she could be at the top. People do move. It’s just that parents who have fought tooth and nail to get their child into a grammar are less likely to move.

Does this grammar use the 11+ results that your daughter took though? Different areas have different tests.

The other thing is that although she has scored highly, it could be that 25 students scored higher than her all the same.

I’m not sure if the tests are the same, she also took CAT tests at her current secondary.

The primary she attended was very high performing and places difficult to come by. Surprisingly children came and went fairly often so I’d be happy on the waiting list.

Obviously not if she was number 99 though!

“It's the only selective school in Cumbria and you won't get a place because there will already be too many children ahead of you on this list. “

It seems in year waiting lists are held in order of 11+ scores and the other over subscription criteria only kick in if two pupils tie for top score. I imagine they will need her to sit their test for comparison.

The Youth Theatre attaches to a professional theatre is often a much better support for the performing arts than schools, so as long as she has a school place somewhere she could go to tne Theatre on the Lake at Keswick.

11 plus exams can vary tremendously. In some areas 30 per cent get in, but in super selective it's more like ten per cent.

I remember a thread about a child from a gs area (Bucks?) wanting a place in Birmingham, yet the areas score very differently.

I would imagine she would have to take a new test as many grammars 'reset' their initial September waiting lists (based on scores) in January so that all children need to take the same, new test.

Firstly you have to actually have a signed contract before you can even apply. You then request your chosen school, if turned down you can then appeal - the grounds of appeal are tight, but have all possible evidence eg we used "i cant get both kids to different schools starting at same time" as well as its the closest school. Additional needs was dropped in too - the older one needed her younger sister to help with transition. My final gambit was every LEA's worse nightmare - otherwise im homeschooling! Took 3 weeks from the turned down appeal to them finding a place. Far better to do this by May as parents give notice of moving and start withdrawing kids by june

I don't think threatening homeschooling makes any difference - lots of people homeschool!!!

Similarly it's not their problem if you can't get 2 children to different schools so doesn't register (yes it would in practice obviously.)

Homeschooling is not every LEA's nightmare. In fact it removes the responsibility from them of having to provide a school place.

What is the reason for the pupil premium?

At Secondary level, able-bodied NT children are expected to travel to school independently. And a ‘threat’ to homeschool will be met with a shrug. If your application and then appeal failed, you will have been given a waiting list place, anniehm, possibly on sibling criteria. They have to offer places in strict accordance with published criteria, not because someone threatens their ‘worst nightmare’ (sic).

It does seem sensible to be poised to take advantage of any vs ancies created by the summer move, though.

If you have good work / life reasons to move OP, and your Dd is OK with moving to Penrith, then I would go for it. That one school will not be the only hope for a good education.

Find out about school buses to Keswick, Carlisle and other places.

Agree completely with DivisionBelle's comments on anniehm's post. Even at primary school level, problems with getting the children to different schools at the same time are not grounds for winning an appeal.

What is the reason for the pupil premium

Pupils from deprived backgrounds or who have been in local authority care generally perform less well at school than other pupils. The pupil premium recognises this and gives schools who have such pupils more money to help address this issue.

No I know what pupil premium is for, I was asking why the op's dd was awarded it as it could affect the appeal /admission process.

In our area you would have to speak to the school and be added to the waiting list. If a place became available all of the children on the waiting list are offered the chance to sit an entrance exam. The childmwith the highest score gets offered the place. (Superselective grammar schools area)