Moving area, year admission for an oversubscribed school?

[Lollabonk]

We are considering moving from the South to Penrith, Cumbria.

DD is 12, very bright and currently in year 9 at a high performing secondary school.

The school we like (Queen Elizabeth Grammar School) is oversubscribed and selective. Apparently it’s rare for places to come up and there is a waiting list.

It’s the closest school to the house we like. Would it be incredibly difficult to secure her a place?

Thanks

MyDc why would the reason affect it? Students either have it or don’t.

Ah, sorry. But it is unlikely to be relevant for appeal. It is relevant for admission as it moves the OP's daughter up the waiting list a little - it gives her priority over any other pupil on the waiting list with the same test score unless the other pupil is looked after or is also eligible for pupil premium or service premium. However, the primary ranking for the waiting list is the score achieved in the school's entrance test.

The LEA will be thrilled if you say you'll homeschool, one less child to worry about!

Cauliflower because if the op dd was a previously looked after child for example, their need for a place on the school could be greater.

It seems there is little point in appealing in most situations. I imagine it’s very difficult to prove one school can offer something the another can’t. There’s not much one state secondary offers that another won’t...

Appeals are won often!

On grounds such as offering a specific MFL or other language, offering extra-curricular and / or music or spot opportunities that another dies not and where the child is demonstrably pursuing that activity out of school. A proven commitment to the performing arts could win an appeal for a school which supports productions and after school clubs if others don’t.

But for a place in a selective school presumably the test score has to be ‘up there ‘.

The QEGS seems to be ‘super selective ‘, I.e not part of a fully selective county system, and not taking distance into account, so I would think the nearby comprehensives would have their fair share of high achieving kids,

If your Dd is bright and conscientious she should thrive in any reasonable school.

One thing I have noticed is the choice of languages in the local schools.

She’s been studying French, German and Spanish. The school we want offers French and German. The next nearest one only offers French and Italian.

She’s pretty good at languages and enjoys them. It would be good if she could have consistency.

They all offer extra curricular drama, choir and art and pretty much everything else she does!

All three of the local secondaries are oversubscribed, would one have to take us or would she have to travel further afield?

My understanding (and happy to be corrected) is that once you apply/appeal (and assuming not successful) then the LEA can offer you a place in any school with space - so not necessarily one of the three local ones.

The only schools you seem to be considering are QEGS, Keswick or Trinity (which is in Carlisle, and quite a trek) I think you’ll be disappointed as there are other local schools which are not over subscribed. One in Penrith itself (ullswater) one in Appleby and several in/around Carlisle, you’ll be offered those.

I’m not trying to be mean, just realistic.

Ullswater is oversubscribed, as is Keswick and Qegs. The nearest school with places is Appleby and according to ofsted it requires improvement.

Sorry, my misunderstanding then, I thought only Trinity did Italian in that part of the world. It’s an unusual choice!

Appleby is “requires improvement” but has a lovely feel. Results are improving I think?

I know I thought it an unusual choice too. It’s Ullswater that does Italian. It would be difficult for DD starting a new language in the middle of year 8 or beginning of year 9.

Does it need to be Penrith specifically? Lots of excellent schools in South Lakes - QES (Kirby Lonsdale), Dallam (Milnthorpe), Kirbie Kendal, Cartmel Priory School.

Kirkby Stephen Grammar also has a good reputation - look beyond the OFSTED report.

We need to be in Penrith really as close to DP’s family.

I think it's possible to pick up other languages relatively quickly, particularly if one has an aptitude for them AND is naturally clever. When I was at school we did Spanish in one year in the sixth form (and all got high grades) so it's entirely possible.

A school transfer (half way through secondary school) may never be a quite perfect fit but a Year 8 or 9 transfer does at least allow some time to catch up ahead of GCSEs.

Don't think you can expect to get the grammar school place for your DD - it will be a matter of luck.

I would have thought up in the NW of England there's likely to be less general movement with families coming/going than one gets down in London/Home Counties. So places are probably even less likely to become available at very sought after schools. You would probably be wise to ask your preferred choice grammar for an overview of previous stats for such admissions. There is an element of luck/chance but you'd have more of an idea of the likelihood.

And as many schools (even grammars) start GCSEs in Year 9, it is quite possible that other families may be considering moving at this point in time, so you may find there's stiffer competition than if you'd thought about moving in Year 7 or at the beginning of Year 8.

You may have to consider sending her to a school with availability and keep her on the waiting list on the off-chance that a place becomes available at the grammar school (for which she can then sit the exam) down the line.

An example - at DS's London super-selective I think they had four boys leave in his year group (across Years 7-11) of 120. All moved - mostly abroad - with parents' jobs.

Out of interest, does she currently attend a grammar school? I ask because there can be a marked difference in the whole approach between grammars and even very high performing comps (and I went to both so feel I can speak from experience!). She may thrive being a big fish in a little pool rather than the other way round - depends on personality to some extent.

Good luck!