Son suspended

[sinceyouask]

Ds1 started secondary school this year. Less than half a term in and he has earned a fixed term exclusion. He deserves it, it's a serious offence (I am not going to say what it is as anyone who knows me and may read this will definitely be able to identify me). He has been under CAMHS for a year with a diagnosis of ADHD for which he is medicated and occasionally sees a psych, who mostly advises me to be kind and him to try to behave. I work in mental health and given the seriousness of this latest issue and the fact that he seems not to recognise how serious is is, I have managed to wangle him a pro bono appointment with one of our psychiatric consultants on Monday afternoon. The consultant is a very experienced psych who is attached to our camhs PICU and I believe will be able to formulate a more accurate diagnosis than we have had so far. DS1 reminds me very much of some of the children who end up on our PICU and our psych agreed his behaviours and way of thinking about them sounded similar to certain patients when I explained what was happening. ADHD does not explain what he has done.

Anyway, his mental health is not what I wanted to talk about here. It's the sheer bloody shame. I don't feel like I can bear to face the school again, although obviously I have to, not least at the reintegration meeting. I feel like they will judge us forever as a terrible family. DS2 is supposed to be going to that school in a few years but I have started to think maybe he shouldn't because no matter how professional the staff at ds1's school are, they will always see ds2 as his brother. Ds2 is almost his polar opposite- the most trouble he has ever been in in his life was having his name moved down two spaces for talking too much!

I'm annoyed that when ds1 first presented obvious issues years ago, his primary school brushed them off and it wasn't until I cried to my GP and begged that he was referred to camhs; primary school eventually promised to refer him to the ed psych but never did. And his secondary school didn't take my concerns seriously until this incident. I tried from before he started to alert them to the fact that ds's problems are far more significant than they seemed to think (based on the info handed over by primary school). They really seemed to see me as an over anoxious helicopter mother. Now of course, they know why I was worrying.

I know this post is a bit ridiculous. I feel ridiculous. I feel like an awful mother. I don't know what to do. I don't have much hope for ds1's future.

What should I be asking the school at and in preparation for the reintegration meeting? How can I get ds1 to understand how serious the situation is? How can I deal with this shame and guilt?

The school will not be judging you, especially as you agree he deserved his exclusion. They almost certainly will put him on a contract and get both of you to sign it.
You could ask for more help and support for him, that would be reasonable given his issues.
If it is a big school, and you have a relatively commone surname, then most staff will not ever make the connectionbetween your two kids, especially if there is a few years between them, and some staff will have left and new ones started. Those that do realise should treat your ds2 as his own person and not prejudge him, though sadly probably a few might.

Quickly. There is no shame for you nor need to feel guilt.

You identified issues and tried to get help earlier in his life. He has been let down by people and professionals who should be supporting and helping you. They didnt. They should but probably never will feel shame and guilt over that. You are "lucky" in that you have good contacts - most of us who have similarly been let down, do not.

So go into school - to that meeting and state clearly that this is the type of issue that you have spent years trying to get help to avoid and now it is time for this school to take proactive action to prevent future issues. It is unlikely that anything will happen quickly but you have marked clearly your concerns and your previous actions.

Have PM d you

I sit on fixed term exclusion meeting panels probably every other week, as a governor. Have you sat before the governors yet regarding the exclusion, or is that part of the integration? It's a legal requirement, so will happen.

Don't worry, they really won't judge you. Not the first time at least. Once I've seen the same parents on a panel 4, 5, 6..., then I may start (internally, personally) questioning parenting. But definitely not the first. Express yourself as you have here - embarrassed, disappointed and determined that this will not happen again. You may then be seen in a positive light, certainly not negatively.

The way not to be is smug, dismissive, lik3 you don't care. There are many parents who are defensive too ("he did it because of x y z, so it's not his fault"). Be careful with your mental health investigations that this doesn't cross a line to excuse unacceptable behaviour in a defensive way. By all means explain that you hope these investigations means you will never be here again, but I would maintain that even so, his behaviour cannot continue and is unacceptable.

FATE if the school isnt providing appropriate support to meet a need regardless of diagnosis, then the pupil should not be punished. I would hope that part of your panel discussions absolutely cover what support should be in place and is that support being actually provided? Parents repeatedly raise concerns, particularly if they can see that their child is out of sync with a peer group, and most are ignored by schools. It is not acceptable for parents concerns to be ignored and then pupils excluded. I would be starting to question whether the exclusion was legal.

Do not feel shame and guilt. You are not an awful mother. I am working with a few parents (and we have excluded their DSs this year already) and I like and respect them.

It’s difficult to suggest what should be discussed at the readmission meeting without knowing what the incident was (whether us was persistent disruptive behaviour or a more ‘one off’ serious incident).
Certainly, what will be put in place to try and prevent it from happening again (school will want to do this). Does there need to be a review of his SEN?

* Have you sat before the governors yet regarding the exclusion, or is that part of the integration? It's a legal requirement, so will happen.*
It is not a legal requirement re a fixed term exclusion.

* FATE if the school isnt providing appropriate support to meet a need regardless of diagnosis, then the pupil should not be punished*
I don’t think OP has suggested this, I think she suggests the FTE was appropriate (unless I read wrong).

A serious incident which harms the safety, welfare or education of other students should be weighed against any mitigating factors.

Why are you feeling shame when what is happened has more to do with inadequate MH services rather than your parenting?

Read your post back. You've raised concerns, asked for help, asked for referrals, been knocked back (almost certainly because of a. poor education in MH issues in a non-specialist population of education workers who are suddenly being made gatekeepers of access to medical services and b. inadequate provision of MH services - which are cut-back and rationed as a cost-deflation measure).

None of that is your fault. I'm not sure it's the schools' fault either (primary or secondary). As a society 'we' seem to have taken a decision to really cut back on health spending, and MH spending in particular.

So, ditch the guilt about your parenting - it's not going to help you with the road ahead for either you or your son. Sadly, that road ahead may see more struggles to get identification, support and help. I'm worry that blaming a parent is a very cost-effective option - you cannot afford to start blaming your parenting because I suspect you are going to have to fight that attitude to get support for your son and your family.

To be clear (which I wasn't in my post) - by 'poor education of education workers), i mean that there hasn't been a well-funded, well-time-resourced, mass training initiative to teach all workers in education about the various SEND and MH issues that may present in schools. Which, personally, I think is pretty poor, seeing the direction of travel with regard to SEND in the classroom.

I'm a secondary school teacher. Fixed term exclusions are fairly common and teachers who are not directly involved don't even register them, there are way too many other things demanding mental attention. The idea that in a few years time teachers will remember this incident and treat his brother any differently as a result is one that can be instantly dismissed. Given teacher turnover and the size of secondary schools, it most likely won't even be the same teachers teaching him.

I know this feels like an enormous deal to you, and of course it will, but to a school it is a tiny, little, commonplace thing - even a serious incident.

There is no need to feel ashamed, so long as you work positively with the school to help your DS and support them in their efforts, they will not think badly of you at all. You are doing everything right, and they will appreciate that.

Thank you all for these replies, I really appreciate you all taking the time.

My annoyance at people not taking me seriously until things get really bad is one thing, but I don't think for a moment that excuses my son and I believe he does deserve the exclusion. Without going into great detail he took a banned item into school and the welfare of others could have been significantly jeopardised. The MH aspect is part of it, but doesn't change that he made poor- actually, poor doesn't even come close, he made appalling- choices, and doesn't change that he lied and continued to lie when given the opportunity not to. I want him to get the MH assessment and support he needs so a)we are never in this situation again and b)his future is less bleak. I think if we all better understand what his issues are we can all do better in managing him and keeping him and others safe. I do accept that what ds1 did is his fault, very serious, worthy of a significant sanction and not excusable whatever MH and/or behavioural issues he has. I am terrified it may happen again, or something similar or worse, and I think a fuller psych assessment and more tailored support could help prevent that.

There are very few people in the country with our surname so ds2 will never not be recognised as his brother!

I suppose I feel ashamed as much because he doesn't, as anything else. For ds1 it is always, always someone else's fault. He seems genuinely to believe that he is very hard done by. He is almost two people: when he is nice he is very nice, caring and kind and funny and sociable. When he is not, he is rude and unpleasant and destructive and malicious and untruthful, and very fixed in his belief that it is not him, it's everyone ele who is to blame.

But isn't that part of ADHD- to believe that it's not their fault. That is certainly the case for my DS too. It is definitely part of the issue and that's why the help is needed for him. How to get him to take on responsibility - well you are asking for help and hopefully you will get a bit more now. Have you been in touch with IPSEA? They will be able to help you with working out the duties of the school with regard to your son.

Part of ADHD of that it's impulsive, so not intentional or thought out, however there is often remorse when someone realises the impact of what they've done. So it is but isn't their fault. That's my understanding anyway.

My oldest has been suspended and had CAMHS involvement at school. His siblings (quite rightly) are treated as separate individuals. The kids look alike, have had the same teachers occasionally and have an unusual surname.
I suspect my oldest has ADHD but he’s an expert at staying under the teachers’ radars and doesn’t have problems academically or socially so the school/CAMHS aren’t interested.

'Even if he did the original crime impulsively as a result of his ADHD (although you said he is medicated for that), the lying and blaming others cannot be attributed to that.
BUT he is an 11 year old boy and with that (oftn) comes foolishness showing off and poor judgement.You need to give yourself a break, you are doing he best you can and you should not feel ashamed

permatired, ODD which often sits in tandem with ADHD is exactly that the lying and the blaming
However - it's important not to allow them to think this is right. My DS is similar- things are always someone else's fault. But my daughter is not like that; so I guess it is part of the condition. Quite hard to counter though, although as parents that is our job!

I do need to do more to help his teachers understand the needs he has relating to adhd, and it may be time for a medication review. I've suspected for some time that he has a number of ODD symptoms- but then, he really can be a child without any of them at times. I'm not sure how consistently he needs to display the symptoms to be diagnosed with the disorder. I hope my colleague can help with that.

I've had a good look at the IPSEA website and I think I'll prepare for the meeting by writing down what I think he needs regarding school using the information they provide. More than anything at this moment in time I wish he'd show even the slightest appreciation of the seriousness of his current situation. He's at his most maddening right now, rude, defiant, cocky, unpleasant, totally minimising everything and sneering at the world. It's very, very difficult not to respond to it.

Yes, I understand - my DS is very similar, it's hard to stay calm. IPSEA have been very helpful to me, they have a phone helpline you may need to make an appointment. The issue is that the very fact that your DS does not realise the seriousness of the situation is part of the problem/ condition! And the school has a duty to support him in enabling him to recognise this. HOwever traditional punishments often don't work- he needs mentoring, time, support and understanding - including instant rewards and all the other things that help with ADHD.

You could also try SEN!SOS!
It can be hard to get through, but they have a lot of experience and can advise in just this type of circumstance. They maybe able to help with legal advice if you need it.
Guilt and regret aren’t productive, although anger can be.

I'm coming back to this because I am pretty much losing my shit in a separate thread on here about exclusions, and am now crying at my desk and I really don't know who to talk to or what to say or what to ask or anything.

Things have not been good since the exclusion, there has been no repeat of the actual behaviour that led to it thank goodness, but everything else has got worse. Well, I guess you could say his ability to hide his bad behaviour from school has improved, or at least his understanding that anything really bad should be done out of school has improved. But he has developed a really hardened "fuck 'em" attitude to school. He is late at least twice a week (we live so close, I wake him so early, I even take his clothes and meds and breakfast to his bedroom for him every day now, he still won;t bloody get up and go on time). He doesn't do any homework at all. He apparently is quieter and less disruptive in class, but he doesn't work or learn anything. He speaks about school with such coldness and negativity (and that breaks my hard as he was so, so excited to go, I have a photo of him from the first day, he was up at 5am to get ready, he had the hugest smile, I look at it now and I just want to sob, all that promise and happiness is gone), he has no trust in or more than basic respect for any of the staff. He is appalling at home, the behaviours are awful, the norm now every night is hours of violent tantrums and destruction of items and verbal abuse. CAMHS are considering closing him and just having the GP dispense and occasionally review meds, school have agreed to refer to the EP but think it will take months. They have a plan in place now to support him but they have pretty much missed the window, he is now in the stage of superficial surface engagement only, so he goes to things, says as little as possible, leaves. He has no trust in or positive feeling towards the school at all.

Because he has been late at least once this term, he wasn't allowed to attend the trip to the pantomime. Any special event that is on the school calendar he has already said he knows he won't be allowed to go to. I congratulated him on getting some credit thing for some good behaviour, he shrugged it off, said it meant fuck all, said that his form tutor had mentioned that since he'd earned a point he had proved he could do it all the time so she expected to see him getting a point in every lesson from now on.

I'm so tired.

That sounds very hard, SinceYouAsk.

And tough on him, too.

Of course he wants to feel he is in control by setting up 'self fulfilling prophesies' and getting himself excluded before anyone else does it for him

Can you talk to his form tutor about giving him more praise and reward for good behaviour alongside the sanctions and pressure?

Being too hard on people causes disaffection, IME.

The worst thing Division is that I am starting to lose my sympathy for him. Last night I just wanted to not be his mum any more, for all of this just to not be. I didn't want to make it better for him, I wasn't thinking as I usually do of how shit he must feel to behave that way, i just wanted it to stop for me. And I did cry, and he took the piss out of that too, and honest to god I wished he was not my son. I'm probably feeling extra sensitive about it all today because of the shame of having had those thoughts last night. If I don't have his back 100% god knows no one else will.

So sorry sinceyouask. I have no wise advice but it must be really hard. Don't feel ashamed of your thoughts. You have the right to have them and you also have the duty to protect your son. But you know this and you are doing all you can.
Hopefuly wiser mumsnetters will intervene soon.

I think the challenge here is to find what has been the trigger for all this negativity and bad behaviour. It is not as though he has always been a nightmare from what you have written, he has become a nightmare.

If you can establish what it was then there is a possibility of creating a situation where you can help him. Without that key I suspect that you will not be able to make any improvement - sorry that I know is harsh to say, but in my opinion likely.

I wonder whether a change in school is a possibility and whether that gets him away from whatever the problem is but doing and then finding no change would be hard to get over, so you really need to have established the issue is something at school before you consider this.