Detention in yr 7 - harsh?

[SingingGoldfinch]

Hi - my dd has just started in yr 7. New school, new rules, new friends - all the usual stuff to get her head round. The school has a policy that it doesn't enforce any sanctions in first 2 weeks but then they come into full force. In principle I don't have a problem with that approach - until that is my daughter very genuinely forgot to do a piece of maths homework and landed herself an after school detention. No warning, no lunchtime detention just straight into a full on after school detention. She was beside herself and really anxious about it all weekend - she's always been so conscientious and has never been in any trouble at all at school. She's done the detention now and I've told her we just put it behind us and move on, but my question is do you think this was a little harsh? Others have forgotten homework in other lessons and been let off.

* The school has an Open Day in two weeks where they want her to represent the school and show pupils round. They obviously believe she is a good advertisement for the school yet they given her two detentions this week!*
She’s only human! They are not condemning her. She’s year 7 and struggling to get organised. Why would that stop them wanting her to rep the school?

having seen 2 dds through senior school i admire it! be grateful. they are establishing early doors that the consequence is applied immediately. i bet your dd never forgets homework again and you will not have to nag her!

They obviously believe she is a good advertisement for the school yet they given her two detentions this week!
A little over the top. It's just a detention.

I gave detentions to students who had helped on open evening. They are lovely students. They don't stop being lovely students because they forgot their homework. They've not forgotten since.

I gave detentions to students who had helped on open evening

Bit harsh, we give house points.

Our school has an automatic homework detention for work not handed in. It means compulsory attendance at the supervised homework session (provided Mon-Thurs, open to all)

I've never thought of it as harsh. (Nor as a consequence of an Open Day! But behaving well in day X doesn't give you a free pass for a mistake at some other time)

pengggwn

as I said above, it is entirely possible to give a sanction for every little thing without it being an after school detention.

As I said my ds and dd go to two schools. Both have large numbers of kids on buses. Both have worked out punishment systems which do not use after school detentions as first point of call.

ds school has a black mark system. Every single black mark = email home with reason why. 12 black marks = meeting with deputy head and DH phone home and talk to parents.
Any serious incident (misbehavour type, not serious as in eg violence) = phone call home to discuss.

Note - the school manages to do as much as possible over the phone, they don't insist that parents come up to school. Why? because most kids are bused and therefore don't live that close.

In the whole of year 7, 8 and 9 they only got as far as after school detentions with about 3-4 kids. Pretty much every single kid did not get as far as 12 black marks.

They have zero tolerance over forgotten kit, phone use, homework not handed in, school uniform etc.

They manage it. Why can't other schools?

This whole comment was really in response to the issue of kids on buses and after school detentions. Some schools in our county have 80-90 % of kids on buses - rural areas. If a school has a different demographic, fair enough, but part of being a good head is knowing your particular school, and your particular set of parents.

Common sense on behalf on senior management is a very useful tool in parent school relationships.

It does seem a little harsh to me. Dd's just started secondary and they have been given out for talking whilst the teacher is, but not for forgetting homework or books.

I can easily imagine dd doing this so I am checking with her what's needed for the next day.

I think there is a positive to it in that at least she now knows detention is a pain but nothing to worry about.

The problem is that children are very different from one another, so one child will shrug and "move on", and another will be overwhelmed by anxiety given the same treatment.

My daughter was yelled at very harshly (in her eyes) for being a minute late for PE (beginning year 7 in a large school, very anxious and confused about where everything was, and the process of changing quickly). I understand that PE teachers want to set up an atmosphere where children don't waste time getting changed, but they should be able to see the difference between a shy and frightened new student who struggles a bit, and kids who are fooling around and wasting time.

My daughter was scared of the PE teacher for the whole year, and actually ended up hating PE, which she had always loved in Primary. Another child would have shrugged and moved on.

Penggwyn - year 7 kids forgetting a bit of kit or getting the wrong day to hand on homework?

Really not a 'behaviour' issue, more a 'getting used to being at secondary' issue

As I said common sense goes a long way.

Glad my kids aren't in your school.

Totally agree Stepmum! Genuinely forgetting one homework in the first month of secondary school (whilst remembering every single other piece) doesn't constitute bad behaviour in my book!?

The problem is that children are very different from one another

This. DD (primary) struggles with organising herself and with anxiety. She also is very harsh on herself and desperately wants adult approval. Her school believe that punishments lead to better behaviour, and are unable to distinguish between deliberately bad behaviour and a child that is doing her best but just can't comply.

We got to the point last year where she said that when she was at school she felt as if she was always about to be told off, but as she didn't know what she was doing wrong she didn't know how to prevent it. She was constantly expecting the next words to come out of the teachers mouth to be the ones telling her off and giving her a demerit. Her mental health was getting worse and worse, and she said she hated herself and wanted to die.

Her anxiety escalated and she started scribbling all over her work when stressed (several times a day at it's peak) so hard she destroyed the book because the paper tore.

Obviously that meant the punishments escalated as she was 'deliberately' destroying school property.

There were no other schools within reach except private, which I couldn't afford.

Thankfully we eventually got a psych ed assessment which concluded that the best way forward was for the school to stop handing out punishments to her, and allow her to go for a walk out of the class if she felt stressed. The school doesn't like it as that is 'letting her get away with it' and 'unfair on the other children', but as they called in the psych ed (and I got the LA involved) they don't have much choice.

Some months on the scribbling has decreased a lot in frequency and she is generally happier. As it took 3 years of 'zero tolerance' to reduce her to that state it will take her a while to recover.

To put it in context, in reception class (different school, before we moved) she had one 'time out' in the whole year (justified, but she was so upset she cried).

So yes, the 'zero tolerance' approach is fine for resilient children who are good at organising themselves - the ones who have won that lottery in life.

You see I'm wondering where you draw the line.

School has already given the DC 2 weeks sanction free.
OP has suggested it should have been a month (so after 6 weeks it would be fine to give detention?)
And suggested for a first offence it should have been overlooked (how does that get coordinated between teachers?)

Genuinely forgetting is not really a good reason - it should have been written in planner, she could have checked with other students etc.

Obviously send your kids where you like, they're your problem at the end of the day.

wow not remotely bitchy.

1. I am a teacher.
2. My kids know how to behave at school. My dd has never had any discipline, not even the demerit marks her school does. Her year 5 teacher told me she was a delight to teach.
3. she was head girl of her primary school
4. ds has had one or two moments, (literally 1 or 2) the school were firm, we were firm, he stopped. He was recently held up as an example (anonymously) for something he had done when the head spoke to year 10 parents.
5. people who meet him complement me on how polite he is.

so no, they are not my problem, they are my delight, and they are that way because they go to schools who understand kids well, and make their discipline fit the children and context they are in. Schools where kids flourish.

(plus my amazing parenting of course!)

Personally I don't think forgetting homework is a 'behaviour' issue. Yes, it's about organisation and planning but it is nothing at all too do with the way a child behaves in class or even their general attitude to school, especially in the early days of secondary when it's all so bewildering. Dd is trying desperately hard to keep on top of it all. She messed up on this one, held her hands up and suffered the consequences - but she is not badly behaved.

I'm finding it fascinating to read people's opinions on this. As I've said previously, we didn't have an issue with the detention and dd did it, no questions asked, it just felt a bit on the harsh side to me so thought I'd test it out here.

So after all those years of primary and having to remember to take pe kit, reading books, spelling books, various projects etc. None of this rubbed off onto children so when they moved to secondary they knew what was expected?
Maybe they were micro-managed by parents? If so this support has to continue and phased off.

Schools, well teachers have to be consistent. How confusing to have some teachers who give no sanctions and others do.

And the school where theirs no sanctions? Well apart from a call home? How does that help the child make the transition to adult? University and work years and they are still expecting mummy and daddy to deal with everything.

That's just it. Dd does pretty well at organising herself and has done since yr 5. It's a different ball game on the homework front when you get to secondary school though. She slipped up - don't we all do that from time to time?

I'm a teacher - I would have given her a day to submit, then if still nothing a lunch time detention. To go from 0 to after school seems pretty OTT

Theresnoname - where do you got no sanctions from?

Pretty much everyone is saying more appropriate sanctions, not no sanctions.

I don't know if you have had a child do the transition to secondary. It is huge. Nothing to do with micro managing parents (another nice leap conclusion there). It is much much harder with much, much more to remember. At primary the pe kit lived at school all term, and the reading book etc lived in school bag unless in use. very different to needed to sort your timetable, books and homework for 5 different lessons running over a 2 weeks timetable. Of course there will be blips at the beginning.

And what a great leap - forget homework in year 7 and mummy and daddy will be micromanaging them at university!