Detention in yr 7 - harsh?

[SingingGoldfinch]

Hi - my dd has just started in yr 7. New school, new rules, new friends - all the usual stuff to get her head round. The school has a policy that it doesn't enforce any sanctions in first 2 weeks but then they come into full force. In principle I don't have a problem with that approach - until that is my daughter very genuinely forgot to do a piece of maths homework and landed herself an after school detention. No warning, no lunchtime detention just straight into a full on after school detention. She was beside herself and really anxious about it all weekend - she's always been so conscientious and has never been in any trouble at all at school. She's done the detention now and I've told her we just put it behind us and move on, but my question is do you think this was a little harsh? Others have forgotten homework in other lessons and been let off.

All these teachers complaining that they don't get lunch if they hand out lunchtime detentions On the times my son got an after school detention for a non homework reason it meant that I had to incur extra childcare, my other kids would have to miss out on clubs and we would all be stressed while my son sat in a nice warm classroom after school for an hour. For parents who are reliant on school buses it's just a punishment on the family

There are "levels" of detention at DC's school. Most minor infringements would earn you 10 minutes detention. Missed homework would tend to be a "do it after school" slightly longer detention, and worse misdemeanours would be longer detentions. So I wouldn't necessarily see detention as a horrendous punishment.

I'm certainly not going to give up my lunchtime to make detentions more convenient for the child that has misbehaved or not done their homework. The vast majority of the children I teach will never get a detention from me, I don't hand them out for fun. I happily give up my lunchtimes to do revision with kids who work hard and want help though. I understand that they can be disruptive but the onus is really on the child to stop getting detentions if it's causing problems for the family.

You should probably be pointing that out to your son then wibblywobblyfish.
In a lot of schools, it's not discretionary on the part of the teacher anyway. They work within the school system.

DD got a detention in Year 7 and it never happened again, but she was worried sick about it at the time. You'll probably find the school become a bit more relaxed as they get to know pupils. In later years my DD didn't hand some of her homework in on time (due to the pressure of there being so much and she wanted to do it as well as she could), but because they knew she worked hard, was involved in the school and it's activities, they let her off.

On the one hand it feels it a little harsh, but on the other...

I was that very conscientious child. I went through the whole of my time at school without a detention, and I actually don't think it served me well. It made me so scared of getting one, and made a detention this huge scary thing in my mind. It made me scared of doing pretty much anything even remotely off key, and as an adult I've really struggled with taking criticism and making mistakes, which I think in part comes from that mindset of never getting anything wrong.

Long story short, I think the odd detention early on would have helped me realise that sometimes we get things wrong, and we have to accept the consequences of that, but actually it's ok and the world won't end.

I agree ifonly - teachers get to know pupils who work hard and they get let off being occasionally forgetful.
In another lifetime my brother got the strap for forgotten homework - mind you the teacher in question got pinned up against the wall by my rather well built father and asked if he wished to inflict physical violence he picked on someone more able to defend themselves - that seemed to resolve the problem.

I got my first detention 2 weeks before I left school in sixth year - I had nipped out to buy my lunch without permission - the deputy head tried to make my detention a non event, kept offering alternatives but I was insistent - I had never had one and I told him I wanted to have at least one to add to my school experience - bastard denied me! I left school with a totally clean record - pah!

I prefer the "3 strikes and you're out" approach to detention myself. It gives kids warnings that they need to keep focused and a chance to turn it around!

I teach secondary and everyone gets one chance from me. After that it is detention for not handing in homework. Detention first time seems a little harsh to me, but no unreasonably so. Late homework (regardless of the reason) causes disruption to the child's learning so you can't really blame teachers for having high expectations of students - it is genuinely for the good of the child.

I am thinking of moving my DD because of this detention for every minor thing rule. I think Yr 7 is just too young. My DD has been crying most Sundays and cannot get to sleep worrying whether or not she has packed her bag correctly. It is causing her enormous anxiety and is having the opposite effect on her and making her less able to manage her stuff for school.

The school has an Open Day in two weeks where they want her to represent the school and show pupils round. They obviously believe she is a good advertisement for the school yet they given her two detentions this week!

it is harsh for a generally well behaved child who makes a genuine mistake.

ds and dds schools would have more build up to detention.

But our local school would have given a detention, they have a strict zero policy policy and it is the only way they can enforece homework etc.

So, it is tough lesson for your dd, but if that is how the school works, unfortunatly that's it.

For parents who are reliant on school buses it's just a punishment on the family

ds and dds schools have a high percentage of kids who are school bus dependant.
I think this has a big influence on how they structure their punishment system.
They have demerit points, which build up to visit to deputy head, plus lunchtime detention and phone call home etc. THEN they get after school detention, which is a nightmare for most parents.

brilliant Could you help her with bag packing and homework organisation so she doesn't forget stuff?

Why? FrLuke. I can help her to a point but I cannot monitor every element of her timetable. She has to change things over in her locker and gets muddled-up.

I think this policy is having a negative affect on well-meaning enthusiastic students who genuinely want to do well.

Why? Because you said she can't get to sleep at night worrying she has packed her bag for school correctly.

As I said I cannot sort things for her at school. They get a detention for pretty much anything.

Oh right. Hope you find somewhere better.

All these teachers complaining that they don't get lunch if they hand out lunchtime detentions
When lunch is short a lunch time detention is ridiculous for staff AND STUDENTS. Whatever the child has done, it's not worth making it difficult for them to eat.

On the times my son got an after school detention for a non homework reason it meant that I had to incur extra childcare, my other kids would have to miss out on clubs and we would all be stressed while my son sat in a nice warm classroom after school for an hour. For parents who are reliant on school buses it's just a punishment on the family
See the way it works is:

1. Don't get a detention
2. If child gets a detention and it's inconvenient then home speak to the child and say 'your actions have caused these issues and i don't want it happening again'.
3. The child sees home and school on the same page so doesn't repeat whatever they did.

Some parents don't get this and do that stupid thing where they inform the school their child wont be doing it.

In law, schools do not require parental consent to keep a child back after school for detention. Every school I've worked in does inform parents as a courtesy but it's not a case of asking permission.
If parents want to tell their child to not attend a detention it gets escalated internally and they start getting internally isolated and so on. (& those parents whine about their child being isolated etc)

so if detention was at lunch time, how long would it be? 20 minutes?
Leaving 15 minutes to line up get food and eat for the pupil. Who would then go home and complain they are starving cos they had no lunch.

Then as an adult would you give up your unpaid lunch to oversee detention?

Or how about parenting and ask the night before have you got x,y and z? It takes seconds to do this. And tone it down to the occasional have you got everything.

At dd's school there are different levels. The most minor one eg. unsigned planner, they just have to sit in a room in the teacher's department in first break. The teacher doesn't sit in with them s/he just gets on with stuff nearby in their dept. I'm sure they get to go to the loo.

Maisy - while I understand your post, please read mine a few posts up.

really schools are a school parent partnership and schools just lose all the support and respect of parents when they do this.

if kids are dependent on the school bus, then the school should work out a punishment system that is appropriate and proportionate, as my ds and dds school have managed to do. After school detentions should be seen as a sanction further down the line and NOT as a first line approach.

recognising the enormous upheaval after school detentions cost, and at the same time have appropriate sanctions to teach kids not to forget kit/homework etc is not rocket science.

draconian handing out of detentions for every little thing is really ineffective and does not have the effect you are looking for.

Step - And what I'm saying is that whatever policy a school has someone is always whining. Enough people on here have already mentioned that they get endless grief from parents if they issue a lunch detention (me included at a school where a 20 min detention in an hour lunch was some horrendous act of cruelty).

I kept a child back for 4 minutes after the bell once to talk to them (because in said school parents were royalty and would excuse their child from sanctions). The child went on a wander after so missed their bus. The busses left 15 mins after the bell normally and were running late that day. Home rang up very confrontationally informing me that i had prevented her child from getting the bus and I had CAUSED her to leave work early etc. When she had finished being an entitled agressive idiot, i pointed out there was 10 mins between me releasing her child and the bus but no, 'my child doesn't lie. Are you calling him a liar?' And then it became obvious why her child had such a massive attitude problem.

Detentions for not completing homework / being routinely unprepared isn't draconian. It's just draconian is the word of choice in almost every local news article when some parent here or there doesn't like the behaviour system.

Some.schools are what I would say more authoritarian. It's not the type of place I would choose to work. But equally, I feel the increasing need to to myself every time I see some article or thread that's 'my child did X and was sanctioned. I don't agree. Should I complain or go to the press?'

really schools are a school parent partnership and schools just lose all the support and respect of parents when they do this
They are a partnership. But they are not there to design a school system around the needs of parents.
A school behaviour system is there to promote good behaviour for learning and sanction poor behaviour.
This idea of schools should bend over for parents to 'earn their respect' is the same sort of nonsense on another thread where people say that teachers have to earn the respect of kids before the child should behave.