Teaching to stop being a graduate-only profession - 18 year old teachers.

[noblegiraffe]

There were rumblings about this a while ago when the apprenticeship levy was introduced, but it looks like Justine Greening is going to introduce an apprencticeship route into teaching.

schoolsweek.co.uk/greening-teaching-will-cease-to-be-only-for-university-graduates/

I'm very concerned that in secondary schools, specialist subject knowledge won't be a pre-requisite for going into the classroom, it will be seen as something that can be picked up across the years, shortchanging the classes who get the apprentice in the first few years of the training (how long is an apprenticeship?).

In primary school, the education of a class for a full year could fall to someone just out of school themselves.

This isn't just about training on-the-job, we already have that as a route into teaching. This is about deprioritising a certain level of education for teachers and devaluing the profession. It's saying you don't need to be well-educated to teach, because you could be teaching straight out of school. The 'learning how to teach' part of any teacher training programme is so intense, that acquiring degree-level subject knowledge will certainly not be a priority from the start.

The wage for apprentices means this is just another way for schools to get teachers on the cheap and hang the consequences for education.

And knowing how many parents already view young teachers, fresh out of uni and just finished their PGCE, how will they take to having their child being taught by someone who hasn't even been to university?

Because it was the only subject a pp mentioned in conjunction with a non subject specialist degree. Ironically the only subject with an over supply of teachers.

Poor old PE teachers - their subject is apparently so easy you don't need a specialist degree. Not a view I share for the record...

You asked if any secondary teachers entered the profession with a BEd and I said, yes PE.

Nothing to do with shortages, or not.

No reason why a primary teacher can't do a NC degree and the join the ladder at L7. Would be lovely to have a Maths and English grad in each primary.

The BEd in PE is highly specialised.

How would you get on the L6 without having done the L5 or even the L4? They look like stopping points rather than entry points. As L7 would be an entry point, it looks like it would definitely be a lesser deal for primary.

Whereas a BEd is the ideal primary route?

I wouldn't argue that, no.

I think if you start going along the lines that primary is worth 'less' than secondary, it's a slippery slope.

Should secondary teachers be on a higher pay scale to reflect this?

What about primary teachers who have a pgce?

What about year 6 teachers who have to teach every single curriculum subject virtually to Y7 level?! Is that not more challenging than a y7 teacher teaching 'just' one subject?

That fits in with the belief of some parents that teachers have been 'promoted' when they are moved from year 1 to year 4!?

Yes I think it would be s good idea to find out properly what PE teachers do these days before poking fun- from what I can tell from my DSs school it's definitely not the same sort of job it was 20 or 30 years ago (when you just needed a sheepskin coat and mug of tea and be able to shout 'once more round the netball court girls, what are you moaning about it's not cold')

Would be lovely to have a Maths and English grad in each primary.

We can't even get maths grads to teach maths in secondary.

I thought it was already rare for teachers to have a degree in the subject that they teach, especially in maths and science.

I teach in the lower. middle, upper system - just to blow everyone's minds!!

Piggy all of them at the same time?

Physicians assist is a 2 year post graduate scheme... so you're 5 years into university education before you actually do anything.

Teaching a class of 30 ... I mean it depends... Do the apprentice work with a fully qualified teacher for the first few years.. then maybe I could see how it might work in primary aged children. I'm less convinced of subject depth at senior level though.

But we can't recruit and importantly retain enough good teachers.. this feels like sticking a plaster on a same off leg.

You don't do a L6 without a L5. You would not do third year uni without years 1 and 2. Or A levels without GCSE (unless you are an exception).
But if you were a HLTA with a lot of experience and some good CPD, that might count as equivalent. L6 would be a rare starting point. There would have to be a way to accredit prior learning and experience.

Is that not more challenging than a y7 teacher teaching 'just' one subject?

I'm not sure any teachers only teach Y7. Primary teach all subjects to one year group, secondary teach the same subject to all year groups.

You can't learn how to teach just by watching teachers.

Yes noble , I am that talented!!

mmzz
Often it's related fields.
E.g. someone who has done engineering can do maths/science
Sadly, there are maths/science teachers with more tenuous links out there because of the mass shortage.

A 3 year BEd in maths/science with QTS could be a good option if someone would offer it. Structured subject knowledge teaching with phased placements like the primary courses.

I think many of us are open to a range of solutions to the recruitment and retention issue. We just don't want ti see our professionalism oushed down further and further.

There's endless talk about getting people into teaching and offering insanr amounts of money in bursaries etc. The thing is 50% of teachers leave in 5 years! The big issue is RETENTION. Until the government actually sort out major issues in the sector then retention will be the issue. (Which is why you can be cynical and say that having a revolving door of cheap compliant apprentices keeps the wage bill down and means they don't have to deal with the real problems)

Personally I find it extremely irritating that a government comprised of a party that believes in market economics wilfully ignores the fact that if teachers (and nurses etc) were paid a comensura rate then there would be no recruitment and retention crisis. the lower the pay rate the less people are prepared to put up with the shit conditions for very long. It's not rocket science.

The big issue is RETENTION. Until the government actually sort out major issues in the sector then retention will be the issue.

I entirely agree.

'commensurate'

Why do people keep comparing this to nursing? Nursing is still not a graduate entry profession in its entirety.

Yes it is, you require a degree to register with the NMC, the diploma courses have been completely phased out.

So glad I can get DD in to a private school where I doubt apprentice teachers will be able to work.

Are teachers in private schools better paid (taking into account holidays, pension, sick leave, maternity pay etc., etc)