Teaching to stop being a graduate-only profession - 18 year old teachers.

[noblegiraffe]

There were rumblings about this a while ago when the apprenticeship levy was introduced, but it looks like Justine Greening is going to introduce an apprencticeship route into teaching.

schoolsweek.co.uk/greening-teaching-will-cease-to-be-only-for-university-graduates/

I'm very concerned that in secondary schools, specialist subject knowledge won't be a pre-requisite for going into the classroom, it will be seen as something that can be picked up across the years, shortchanging the classes who get the apprentice in the first few years of the training (how long is an apprenticeship?).

In primary school, the education of a class for a full year could fall to someone just out of school themselves.

This isn't just about training on-the-job, we already have that as a route into teaching. This is about deprioritising a certain level of education for teachers and devaluing the profession. It's saying you don't need to be well-educated to teach, because you could be teaching straight out of school. The 'learning how to teach' part of any teacher training programme is so intense, that acquiring degree-level subject knowledge will certainly not be a priority from the start.

The wage for apprentices means this is just another way for schools to get teachers on the cheap and hang the consequences for education.

And knowing how many parents already view young teachers, fresh out of uni and just finished their PGCE, how will they take to having their child being taught by someone who hasn't even been to university?

sorry, I take issue with this:

Look at the assessment-only route designed as a three month tick box exercise to award experienced teachers who trained elsewhere QTS.

I trained elsewhere, and have both a university degree in my teaching subject as well as a BEd. I had already taught before I came here.

The words ‘box ticking exercise’ imply that recognising non-uk qualifications and experience is somehow invalid.

given the hostile attitude toward non-uk born people, it doesn’t surprise me

You did mention the apprentice levy, but where is that money supposed to come from?

It sure as hell shouldn't be coming from the school's existing staffing budget. If it is then schools need to be able to opt out completely and be able to manage their budget to meet their staffing needs.

The idea that OFSTED might be able to provide some sort of quality assurance is laughable. They can't always manage that now.

I also have better qualifications than many of my uk trained colleagues. People like me are dragging down the profession? Really?

People like me are the equivalent of throwing an 18 year old apprentice in front of an a level class?

Really?
Really?

Madge you missed the point. The assessment-only route was designed for experienced teachers like you. It is being used to lure unqualified teachers to go straight into teaching in English schools with the carrot being in a couple of years they'd be put through assessment-only. It's being billed as a route into teaching and it was never meant to be.

Really? If you trained outside the uk/Europe, you are unqualified

Are you aware that evenif you graduated summa cum laude from Harvard, some dink with a third class degree from an ex poly is considered more qualified than you

watch who you call unqualified, it doesn’t mean what you think

I can see I was being stupidly naïve noble

It is yet another issue with some of the training programs, Madge, but I don't think that's the situation people on this thread were referring too.

But in reality, I don't think well qualified professionals are applying for apprenticeships unless they are well paid for it.

Madge honestly, it's being misused to get warm bodies with no experience in front of a class. I have no problem with it being used for its intended purpose.

Are you aware that even if you graduated summa cum laude from Harvard, some dink with a third class degree from an ex poly is considered more qualified than you

Maybe not madge but, in a few years, an apprentice will be...!

I don’t have a problem with there being a system for assessing the qualifications of overseas trained teachers

I have a problem with the suggestion that we are automatically incompetent unless proved otherwise and the reason the education system is in a shambles, and that our contributions to the profession are on par with that of an 18 year old apprentice.

It’s funny, too- back when I was ‘unqualified’ I was still good enough to teach in one of the country’s best state schools- luckily for them, all my ‘unqualified’ status meant was that they were allowed to pay me close to £5k less than an NQT

bargain.

like, I didn’t fuck up your education system, chum- if anything, people like me (as with your NHS) are helping to hold the rickety thing together

well, I was. I don’t work in state schools anymore, I got tired of being treated like garbage

Well this seems to have taken an interesting turn.

I’d be unqualified too @madge as I don’t have a degree yet. However I have a job that enables me to use degree level maths (calculus, statistics) and my job involves a lot of explanation. Been offered a number of private school and academy positions, some at very tempting salaries. But state schools will still prefer a someone with a 3rd class unrelated degree to teach maths than me.

Back to the original. As a primary HT, I wouldn't be putting an apprentice teacher into my school. I am too accountable for children making progress (quite rightly); I am under significant pressure to continue to improve teaching and learning; pupils need to reach national standard; Ofsted inspections are too easily damning. One observed lesson which has weaknesses in children's progress would bring about and inadequate judgement. Children not making progress shown through book scrutiny would bring about an inadequate judgement; poor behaviour seen and definitely any aspect of safeguarding would bring about an inadequate judgement. An inadequate judgement means the school would be removed from being maintained and forced to academise; no interest from a MAT and forced to close.
It is really difficult to recruit teachers. Am I going to risk an 18 year old apprentice teacher? The stakes are just too high for children who are my priority, but also due to our education system for the whole school. My professional integrity would prevent me taking such a high risk decision, for the children for my staff and for my own career.

see, this is exactly what I am talking about

I have a first class degree in my teaching subject from an overseas university which is recognised as equivalent to a first class degree in the uk by UK NARIC

I have a first class BEd, also so recognised. I came to the uk with relevant teaching experience.

Nonetheless, a uk person on this thread, with no degree, but who explains things in their job reckons that they are my equivalent professionally

sorry, no.

@LaLaLady2 do you think it's possible that you could be compelled to take apprentices on this scheme, or is that very unlikely? I'm assuming school's aren't compelled to take PGCEs on placements for example.

If HT budgets are sliced and sliced and sliced-i suppose that might be the incentive to have an apprentice to try to balance the books.

Madge stop whinging, the UK system recognises your value and has a system for you to become a recognised qualified teacher and paid properly within about 3 months. This is not about you.

you were the one who brought up the assessment route as a way of damning the professionalism of overseas trained teachers

maybe don’t post about it if you don’t want comments?

Nonetheless, a uk person on this thread, with no degree, but who explains things in their job reckons that they are my equivalent professionally

Who are you referring to , Madge

You sound a bit like you think you don't get enough adulation for your first class degree. I don't think there is anything different there for UK trained teachers!

I think most teachers on this thread are saying that they don't want unqualified 'explainers' in front of classes?

Yes I did bring it up, Madge because it's an example of a system that was introduced for people who were trained elsewhere to easily get a recognised QTS in England that is being totally misused to get any old person into the classroom.

The problem isn't with the route, the problem isn't with you, the problem is how some schools are misusing this system to get cheap cannon fodder with no teaching experience in front of their classes.

You don't need to act like I'm attacking you, because I never was.

nonetheless, a uk person on this thread, with no degree, but who explains things in their job reckons that they are my equivalent professionally

Isn't that what many in this thread are all in agreement about?

I’m referring to this post:

RavingRoo

I’d be unqualified too @madge as I don’t have a degree yet. However I have a job that enables me to use degree level maths (calculus, statistics) and my job involves a lot of explanation. Been offered a number of private school and academy positions, some at very tempting salaries. But state schools will still prefer a someone with a 3rd class unrelated degree to teach maths than me.