High school open eves.... ofsted.... how to choose high school for DD?

[jobergamot]

I'm going to do the rounds of looking at high schools this month even though DD is only in Y5; I want to shortlist at least for next year. But what am I looking for? Expecting open evenings to be all fur coat and no knickers anyway .... and can anybody explain the Ofsted system to me? As some of the schools I'm looking at don't seem to have been inspected since 2013 but they're only good rather than outstanding.... I thought it was only outstanding schools that didn't get a further inspection. And it seems that academies don't get inspections so who monitors their progress I'm completely clueless about all this!!!

What is important to you?

Ethos - do you want pushy, laid back, liberal, strict (affects behaviour, homework, uniform etc)

Pastoral - does your child have any particular pastoral needs, are they likely to be target for bullying, suffer from anxiety

Extra curricular -do you care about any particular type of extra activity

Academic - does your child have SEN, or is a high flyer.

Curriculum - do you want any particular subjects to be offered. Do you care whether they can do 2 MFL at GCSE, or who gets to do triple science. do you care if they are forced to do PE or a tech at GCSE

Having worked out what is important to you, you know better what to look for.
e.g. For my DDs, pastoral, caring, good with mid/low ability, not too pushy, were the top things. I didn't care whether they pushed high achievers, or had 17 sports on offer.

Academies do have inspections...

Go with an idea of your likelihood of actually getting into that school. Where we live we had one certainty, one longshot or a long journey.
So we were viewing the certainty with the eyes of "would we hate our child to come here".

In terms of curriculum look at the schools policy on who can do what GCSE. One school near us is very prescriptive that top 20% only can do triple science, for example.

It's hard to quantify what you look like in a school. For me my decision was summed up the head's talk.
At school A - the headteacher said that of course results were important and proceeded to talk briefly about their results. She then followed up with a statement but they saw education about bringing out the best in your child whatever their talents might be. And they then had chats from various students ranging from the very academic to someone who was sporty, someone who had taken a while to knuckle down etc.

At school B the headteacher talked for 30 minutes including many slides of statistics and examples about how important academic results were to them and the teaching methods they used to ensure that. There was then a talk from the head boy.

For me, the talk exemplified the school's ethos, so I picked the one that resonated more (which luckily was the dead cert school!)

And it seems that academies don't get inspections
They do get inspected by OFSTED as well - but if the school has only converted to an academy, they may not have been inspected yet! However as your dc are only Y5 any school in this category should have been inspected by next year.

Talk to the teachers and see how friendly/responsive they are and how they interact with your child.

We couldn't believe the difference. In some schools, the teachers just stood around in huddles talking to eachother and made no attempt to talk to those of us visiting - we had to break into their conversations and they gave the impression we were interrupting them.

In others, the teachers would virtually swoop as soon as they saw you, engage in conversation, some whisked our son away to play a game or do some other interactive activity.

We chose one of the latter, and DS couldn't be happier with the school, the pastoral care, the friendliness and approachability of the teachers etc., and excellent results too!

Someone once said to me, see what the children are like at the school, if they are polite, reasonably smart (they are teens after all), and look happy going in and coming out of the school, then it is probably a good school. Obviously you need to look on normal days, not the parents evenings, where they pick the best behaved and nicest children to make the school look good.

Also look at the results the school has and the options available for children. Do they have lots of choices at GCSE do they have Btechs, so that your DC has good options whether they are massively academic or not. Also check if they have a good SEN department if that is a requirement for your DC.

Did the same as you last year - doing it for real this year.
My dd is a high achiever but as she's an only we want somewhere she can build on the work she's done on the social side. Is there a good vibe? How do they handle bullying? What extra-curriculum stuff is there?
A great deal depends on the quality of the head. Turnover of staff is something to look at.
As well as the usual- is she in the catchment area?
League tables and recent results aren't meaningless but they don't tell the whole story.
Sorry to be a bit vague but you will learn a lot this round of open evenings just by looking. And ask your child for their opinion. It's easier now to stay in touch with pals who go to different schools. Reassure them that you will do what you can to facilitate this if it is a big issue for your child.

I did the same as you when DD1 was in yr5, visited every school in the area and discarded those that i didn't like first. Gut instinct for a few of them!

I visited again in yr6 and took DD with me. I would have been happy with whichever school she chose, but thankfully she went for the up and coming smaller year group school where she has absolutely thrived.
The school streams from yr7 (other option doesn't), really stretches their high achievers, and has a specific programme for students who are struggling. Pastoral care is fantastic, small GCSE classes are a bonus, and there are plenty of other avenues for children who are less academic.

It all depends what your priorities are, for both you and DD. I personally would take of OFSTED with a pinch of salt and check out their Progress 8 instead.

Go for the feel of the place initially. And how interested the teachers seem to be.

Not sure taking Ofsted with a pinch of salt is good advice but the new Progress 8 thing is worth keeping an eye out for. Start publishing then on 12 October.

Ofsted have an agenda to pursue they are not impartial unfortunately.

Ofsted reports should absolutely not be part of the decision making process unless they highlight a major issue - it's about the vibe of the school and whether it feels right to you, and to your child. Just decide based on how the open day feels, and maybe on other parents' experiences if you can garner any - though again they're of course child specific. What works for one child may not work for another. Some "outstanding" schools are only outstanding because of the children there, and some "inadequate" schools are labelled such because of supposed "safety" issues (like not having a thousand different types of lanyard or a high fence all around the school).

We did this last year in Y5 and are doing it again for real ATM. What we found last year was there is a huge difference between the Open Evenings and the Open Mornings.

We saw our local school's Open Evening and were really impressed. Went back for a daytime visit and absolutely hated it! Went to another 2 open mornings at other schools and got a really good vibe from both. Still can't put my finger on what was wrong with the first school but both came out and said No.

It really is worth going on a normal school day if you can, even in Y5.

This is a really helpful thread! It has really helped me think about what I need to look at as I go round.

Many thanks for all your responses they've been really helpful but please what is progress 8?

Progress 8 is a measure of how much progress pupils make from y6 SATs to GCSE.
Broadly the more positive a score the better, and the more negative score the worse. It is meant to catch coasting schools who have a good intake but then don't push them on much despite getting a good %5 A*-C.
Like all things though it can be 'gamed' a bit by schools forcing certain subjects even if not in the best interest of a particular child or whatever.
You can see the score for high, middle and low attainers so you can see how they do with your type of child.

Ofsted do not rate a school "inadequate" because a fence is missing. Do look at fairly recent inspections and ask if improvements have been made. E.g.: if Ofsted have picked up on 40% of lessons being taught by supply teachers, is that the case now? If 30% of lessons were poor, what has been done to improve teaching? What are the standards now? This sort of Ofsted evaluation really matters and does give parents a steer on what is good and what could be better. It is not unusual for a good school to have 5 years beteeen inspections.

Lots can change in a school year on year with good leadership. So if a school has been less than good it can improve with a good Head. If a school yoyos in and out of requires improvement or worse, I would be wary. A consistently good school would give me confidence.

On open days everyone is on their best behaviour. I would look at what you really want for your child and see how the schools measure up.

BubblesBuddy my sister actually worked in a school that last year was told if they didn't construct a fence and introduce lanyards for sixth form they would be assessed as "inadequate" by ofsted despite being consistently "good" for years - purely because of the safety issue. Ofsted often like to be able to show they've improved schools without having to actually do much - asking a school to install a fence and establish a lanyard system wouldn't have been a challenge, but could still have been spun as a success story.

I think what's important is the content - as you say, if the issue presented is the teaching, or the method of discipline, then that is a concern. But looking at the overall rating alone is a poor picture.

I'm not sure if this is entirely helpful but as well as looking at Ofsted and attainment my choices were also dictated by my gut reaction. The school my dc has just started at I walked through the doors and simply went 'This is the school' I really can't explain it. On the opposite the school that all the other parents seemed to loved (and chose) there was something about it that didn't seem right to me.

My sister had a similar experience when looking round schools - there was one school she didn't like, she said she couldn't quite put her finger on it, but something didn't feel right.

I will add I was looking round schools right as I was in the throes of depression and started my anti-d's the day I visited the school I didn't like, I'm not sure if that clouded my judgement or not.

I think your sister, Rose0, has been told a huge porky by the school leadership. I suggest you read the Ofsted Inspection Handbook for the Inspection of schools and see if you can find a section where Inspectors would have ever given consideration to a fence and lanyards! It's rubbish I'm afraid.

As a Governor, I have had training on Inspection of Schools by Ofsted inspectors over many years and I can assure everyone that no mention is made of such petty issues and these issues would never, on their own, cause a school to be Inadequate. What Ofsted do look at is how a school is performing and educating the pupils. Most schools work professionally with Inspectors and a great deal of evidence is available to Inspectors on-line before they even turn up at school. Parents can be sure that the vast majority of recent inspections are valid and based on evidence about the education of children. Secondhand anecdotal stories from the sister of a MN poster who wasn't at the feedback meeting of the Inspectors to SLT at the school, but has reported the school's spin as fact are not really helpful when parents are choosing a school.

Reading the Inspection Handbook should be required reading for all parents so they actually understand the inspection process and how grades are awarded for each category of the inspection.

Gut reaction is often valid. Will your child fit in? You do get feelings for schools and sometimes this is more important than stats and evidence. There is no reason why parents cannot use every bit of information available to them and gut reaction!

I teach in a secondary school and the other school nearest us just got a 4 in their Ofsted and one of the issues was safeguarding - in relation to a fence/public footpath that has existed for 30+ years but only been seen as an issue in the most recent inspection. So I agree with the pp that this kind of physical safeguarding is a very current issue for inspectors. We have just had a new fence!!

Our local secondary was rated inadequate because it was.
A relative's school (where they are a teacher) was riddled with violence and drugs) was also rated inadequate.
When I was a kid (the same school- local to my 70s childhood home) it would have been a shoulder shrug and "well what do you expect from that part of town". Not now. After the improvements following the negative inspection, people a desperate to send there kids there.
It wasn't about lanyards and fences I can assure you. My relative was regularly breaking up fights, waiting for the police to get there.

I also know a primary school that got a "satisfactory" on OFSTED because the fences around the school/entry gate wasn't up to scratch on one inspection.

If you're able to, once you've identified the 2-3 you like most, email or call the school in a few months time and ask for a visit and your. How they respond will tell you a lot. Seeing the school on a 'normal' day will tell you even more.

For what it's worth my dd's school regularly had a kid trying to run away . I have no idea what that child was dealing with in their life but I remember once seeing the head teacher haring after the child. And another teacher doing the same on another occasion.
Thank god for the new bloody fences.