High school open eves.... ofsted.... how to choose high school for DD?

[jobergamot]

I'm going to do the rounds of looking at high schools this month even though DD is only in Y5; I want to shortlist at least for next year. But what am I looking for? Expecting open evenings to be all fur coat and no knickers anyway .... and can anybody explain the Ofsted system to me? As some of the schools I'm looking at don't seem to have been inspected since 2013 but they're only good rather than outstanding.... I thought it was only outstanding schools that didn't get a further inspection. And it seems that academies don't get inspections so who monitors their progress I'm completely clueless about all this!!!

Listen to the talks and decide on the ethos of the school.

Personally, i would avoid things like thr good school guide that goes in local papers.
Group 1- The 'top 3' schools near me are not where I would send my children. They technically get the most progress, but they have low KS2 entry points and then they push their KS4 students down the route of ECDL and BTECS where getting a distinction is 'equivalent' to an A*. Their data looks awesome but those students haven't had a broad and balanced curriculum.
These schools ahve all been in requires improvement and are trying to get up to good with ofsted so the solution has been to do lots of maths and english intervention and then push lots of students onto courses that make it easier to get points for progress 8.

Group 2- 3 schools givr a broad curriculum to all with personalisation for those with SEN but apparently aren't as high performing according to the local newspapers for progress 8, but that's because these schools offer a full curriculum.
Behaviour is better in the group 2 schools.
Staff morale is better in thr group 2 schools.
Pastoral care is better in the group 2 schools.

Those of you who think schools have got 'inadequate' because of fences, have you actually read the reports? This happened to a school near me, apparently, but when you read the report you realise there were many more issues.

Check out the toilets. There is a direct correlation between the state of school toilets and the quality of the school.

Try to speak to as many pupils as you can.

Schools will say something like "We offer Duke of Edinburgh" but when you speak to the pupils, you find that there are only 20 places and 300 pupils per year group. Then apply that to Musicals, Residentials, Football Teams, etc.,etc. You need to look behind the headlines in the brochure.

When you look round, go into the toilets - they don't expect that to be on "the tour" so is quite an interesting insight.

Do talk to other parents, but realise that any one individual can have a real chip on their shoulder or had their own interpretation on something. However, if you speak to 20 parents and they are all saying the same thing, it's probably true.

I remember going round one school, and began to notice that the work out in virtually every room was all from the same person - didn't give me a great impression.

Remember that, in between your dc being in Yr5 and Yr 11, so much will change - from Government changes with curriculum to individual staff members leaving. Try not to fixate on one single thing (for example being able to do a second language or being able to do separate sciences or whatever), but get a wider picture.

Agree on talking to students.

We don't brief our students who are out. We just ask who would like to volunteer. It's always funny yo hear them advising y6s which days are best in the canteen.

Ours will talk happily about progress because we talk about progress abd learning lots in class, but that's not all they are about.

Beware of students who seem like they are parroting lines or seem to have been briefed.

Listen to the talks and decide on the ethos of the school.

To be honest, I would't take much notice. In all the schools we went around, the Head's talk was strong on pastoral care, anti-bullying, etc. Talk is cheap - it's easy to say that the school is caring and clamps down on bullying. Turning that into reality is another thing! There won't be many Heads who stand up and admit they have a bullying problem!!!

Check out the toilets. There is a direct correlation between the state of school toilets and the quality of the school.

I would absolutely agree with that. The single sentence that most impressed me in my initial tour of one school was 'We aspire to have the best school toilets in the country', followed by dropping into practically all those we passed on the way round.

I have also been extremely impressed, in visiting a school in a very deprived catchment but which had a new building some years ago, at the extreme care that had been taken in 'designing out' possible toilet issues - it's so common to see schools with beautiful 'atrium areas' but lousy toilets that the focus on the toilets (and their prominent position, with open-plan sink areas straight from public areas) was really refreshing to see. Wasn't surprised to see rapid improvements in Ofsted, results and reputation.

Check out the toilets. There is a direct correlation between the state of school toilets and the quality of the school

...or it might mean that usage of the toilets is strictly restricted to ensure they stay in immaculate condition.

Open evenings where there's pupils in classrooms demonstrating stuff - see how supervised they are. Is the teacher talking to parents while the pupils engage the younger child? Or is the teacher controlling everything? I like to see the current pupils engaged in the work and interacting with prospective pupils. At our school, all new Y7s are expected to help on the (September) Open Evening, but they're very much given choices on where they'd like to help out and most of them show real enthusiasm at this point which wanes somewhat by the time they're in Y10! Are current pupils confident about talking to parents and happy to say their own stuff, or is a teacher breathing down their neck to ensure they don't say the wrong thing?

Ask about things like homework club - are there facilities for pupils to do work at school, use IT and printers, etc. Are there 'breakout' facilities for pupils who have conditions like ADD, autism? Somewhere safe with pastoral staff for pupils who feel threatened or mentally not well?

What's the tutor/mentor system? Will your child have a consistent member of staff responsible for his/her welfare as well as grades? Vertical tutor groups? If so, how effective have they found them? Ask current pupils about their tutor periods.

Active in local sports leagues, matches against other schools? Variety of sports teams and activities to suit all abilities and needs? See if they're playing at home one week and go along and watch. You can tell a lot by seeing how sportsmanlike the players are, talking to other parents on the sidelines, etc.

There won't be many Heads who stand up and admit they have a bullying problem!!!

A head at a school we looked said in her talk "the school does not have a problem with bullying" it made me wonder why she was denying it...

Another thing which I found quite interesting, when viewing schools, was how willing they are for you to see them at times other than their open evenings / mornings.

I visited (or tried to visit) 4 schools, all over-subscribed. As a teacher, i couldn't go to the open mornings all had. One did have an open evening, but for DS (for various reasons at that point a vulnerable child with particular needs) I wanted to see the school 'in session'.

One arranged a special 1:1 tour with an assistant head, who as well as showing me round the school, actively sought out children like my DS as we went round to talk to me about their experiences.

One arranged a late 'mop up' morning tour for me plus a few others who had not been able to attend the main events, during a normal school day, with a sixth former.

One regretted that, for numbers reasons, they really couldn't arrange extra morning tours or individual visits, but were happy for me to speak at length with a senior member of staff and the SENCo.

One refused, point blank, at the receptionist level, and told me off for not going to the open morning. They were so adamant that I was not allowed to see the school, or talk to anyone, outside the official open mornings that I am afraid I was goaded into asking what it was they didn't want me to see on a normal school day.

We went with school 1. Pastoral care for the individual child, including those who are 'unusual', and willingness to see parents as partners in the children's education, has been excellent. I don't hear the same things about school 4.

Inspecting Safeguarding in Early Years, Educational and Skills settings is the document Ofsted Inspectors use for inspecting safeguarding in schools. There is a paragraph that relates to the physical safety of the children within the school and security of the buildings but the overwhelming emphasis is on what the school does in cases of abuse. It would be great if we could actually read the Ofsted reports where schools have been failed solely because of a dilapidated fence!

I am not sure how a school could accommodate hundreds of parents wanting individual visits. Just not fair on the school if everyone wants a personal visit and disturbs the work of the school. Parents are not entitled to individual visits. Why do parents want to go into classrooms and see a normal working day? How could this possibly be accommodated for large numbers who just wanted to have another look, or a first look? Quite common to refuse I think!

I have had the pleasure of doing a site walk with an Ofsted inspector. They definitely are interested in perimeter fencing.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/04/30/outstanding-school-put-special-measures-did-not-have-fence-headteachers/

www.ksgs.cumbria.sch.uk/content/ofsted-report

www.ksgs.cumbria.sch.uk/sites/default/files/attachments/page/Ofsted%20Report%20Published.pdf

Is an example - if you read the report the three areas marked as "inadequate" are purely inadequate as a result of "safeguarding" - specifically registers and fences. The teaching is all reviewed as good, progress is good, leadership is good. While this issue may bother some, I personally wouldn't be particularly interested or concerned - I would be happy enough to send my child there because all the other areas (teaching, wellbeing) are deemed good (though I totally understand that some may not feel this way). This was the point I was originally trying to make (which has sparked a lot of debate!) - it's important to actually read why the school is in special measures rather than just assuming that because it is it's a school to be avoided. Ofsted reports should certainly be read, but for the content - not the rating. The overall rating gives a poor snapshot. The whole report gives much clearer picture. A school in special measures should not be ruled out purely because it's in special measures (or even satisfactory for those who are picky!), it should be ruled out if the reason for it receiving that low rating concerns you.

In the same way it should not instantly be assumed that an "outstanding" school shall be outstanding for all pupils - the "outstanding" grammar school not far from us has dreadful sports facilities and in the last few years has had a number of big cyber bullying problems. That may not bother some parents, but it does bother me - hence why my daughter won't be going in for the 11+.

There won't be many Heads who stand up and admit they have a bullying problem!
ALL schools have bullying.
As a former colleague said to me, you should be wary of a school that claims not to have bullying.
Where there are children, bullying can occur. The question is what do the school do about it?

I agree about reading the content of reports, and as the parent of a boy with SEN, ksgs is firmly off my list. That report is not all good and not all about fences.

The other one round here that some people would have you believe was about a fence, definitely wasn't just the fence!

Check out the toilets. There is a direct correlation between the state of school toilets and the quality of the school

Except the worse thing about DCs secondary according to them is the toilets. And their Primary was very proud of its toilets.
However DC all massively prefer the secondary which gets pretty good results. Primary was a bit marmite, and massively underestimated most of my DC.
I would say the better school had the worse toilets.

YogiYoni you're right that the report does state support for SEN students and sometimes English for boys is weak - but that is, to be fair, the only other issue outside of safeguarding and therefore without the register/safeguarding issue it would probably have an overall "good" or "satisfactory" rating. And though it is very concerning (purely out of fairness!), it wouldn't affect a large portion of the student body. It makes sense why you wouldn't choose the school, but as my younger children are girls and luckily won't need a lot of support at school, I don't think they would be negatively affected by going there - unlike your son. Which illustrates my point perfectly! Some schools work just fine for one child but would be absolute hell for another.

I think we're arguing the same thing: read the report, see the school, make your own judgment

Beka I'm sure there are exceptions but it is not an opinion, it is research based information. Schools with clean toilets stocked with hot & cold running water, soap and towels, are better schools than those with messy, smelly toilets.

I think DCs secondary - the toilets are too disgusting, there just aren't enough - something I have said the PTA should raise money for (there is even space as there are two cloakrooms no longer used for coats but just storage).

Hate to tell you, op, but you don't get to "choose" as such.

Depends on the area @shhhhhh. Round here you do.

Bubbles,

I would agree that it is quite reasonable to refuse an individual visit for every parent (though most primaries manage, IME - as an oversubscribed multi-form primary with a huge waiting list and high numbers of appeals each month, we still show parents round individually - it is a daily occurrence) if they can possibly make the open mornings and if they have a child who has no specific SEN.

However, I found that the attitude of each school to a parent who couldn't possibly make the open mornings and had a child with an interesting history of anxiety-related SEN pretty much mirrored their approach to dealing with individual parents and with children who didn't 'fit the standard mould' - so in my case it was a very useful discriminator.