Coombe Girls / Tiffin / Kingston Grammar / Surbiton High / Sutton High / Wimbledon High

[whycantwegoonasthree]

Hey wise women of Mumsnet,

What's your opinions/ insider knowledge of the above schools and am I missing anything?

They strike me as my best options in the area but I've only had the internet to go on, and a few brief chats with other mums from school (some of whom are a bit hyper about all this TBH...)

I'm in the enviable position of needing to move house before applying for schools and being afford to pay fees if I have to. (Only just, and I'd rather not obvs. but I can.) so my options are pretty open in that regard.

I have 2 DDs, currently in years 3 and 5 at a private prep – not our choice, we were unlucky about where we lived when it came to primary applications. I'm not snobby about it, in other words.

Eldest DD is, I think pretty bright, but a bit lacking in self confidence. She's been talking with her peers and is hell-bent on Tiffin - but the idea gives me chills - it sounds like a scarily competitive place and not especially nurturing. This is said on the basis of not much actual info though.

I went to a GDST school (on a scholarship as we were broke) and had a great time, so am positively disposed to them for that reason - but am unsure of how they differ from each other.

I know nothing of Surbiton High other than it looks very much like a GDST school from the website!

Coombe girls has great reviews, and it does look like I'd be nuts not to just buy a house in catchment and escape the whole selective stressy nightmare and the fees. And I would know that both my girls could go there, whatever happened, and I wouldn't have to go through all this again in 2 years.

But I currently live in Raynes Park, and this wold mean a move further West - which on the one hand would be a shame as I like it where I am, but may be a small price to pay for a guaranteed school place! (We'd get more for your money with houses too...)

I'd really appreciate your thoughts and insight if you wouldn't mind!

WCWGOA3

Sorry meant 'Similar level of difficulty to Tiffin Boys'.
The reason that Tiffin Schools are seen as 'harder' to get into is that it's one school whereas in Sutton at least there are more to choose from once you are past the first stage.

I have a DS who has just started at KGS - and can back up what people have said about the pastoral care. He's had a much easier / more gradual ride than his friends at Emanuel and Putney High.

My DD is a different kettle of fish so am thinking of Surbiton and Sutton. She loves her sports and drama and is in the middling to high band (not the clever table!)

Any other thoughts?

I was recommended Ibstock Place as being very good for drama and dance, but ruled it out as it's an awful journey by public transport (including a bus change at Tibbets Corner, which is isolated and not a nice place to have to wait around). But it seems to be in a similar group to Emanuel, which is very strong on drama and even has children in West End shows, so if the journey is doable for you it might be worth a look.

We went to the KGS open day on Saturtday and I went to the parents' infomratio evening. It was all very polished, very together. They served very nice wine and canapes, it was all very civilised.

I'm very torn, though TBH.

On the one had this 'expectation of excellence' - that they don't just have hockey players, they have olympic hockey players, they all go on to Russell group/oxbridge, everyone's getting a bazillion A*s, everything is amazing/incredible, it's quite seductive. And I that's quite powerful - I think a child who went there would excel, in part because it's just expected.

On the other hand the sense of striving was palpable and it gave me a bit of a headache. It feels quite daunting. You can feel the pressure seeping out of very brick. It would be an intense school experience, and I honestly don't know how I feel about that.

They talk a lot about pastoral care - and I think they're genuine. But i think you'd bloody need it, IYSWIM.

I certainly felt more at peace at Sutton High...

We go to Coombe girls this Wednesday evening, and Wimbledon high at the weekend, so it will be great to have a few more to compare.

I really liked KGS, but it gave me quite an anxious feeling in the pit of my stomach - that you're signing up for a really all-consuming thing. It feels like it would take over absolutely everything.

I'm going to look at Ibstock - I did wonder if it was a bit 'Tim nice but Dim' but I think I'm just being an intellectual snob. And I was speaking to a friend whose two sons went their and are both heading to Oxbridge. I'm thinking that perhaps it just has a nicer balance.

And of course I'm really hoping to be blown away by Coombe girls this week.

Because there's a huge part of me who would quite like to not play this whole ridiculous game. Just not join in at all. Just move house and have done. End of anxiety/stress for everyone. And then I wonder if I'd be letting them down somehow...

Maybe I should just face up to the fact that I might actually just be a massive snob...

Goodness they must have upped their game, when we went to see KGS it was all a bit chaotic and that was what I liked! The LEH/SPGS ones were terrifying in comparison.

I can assure you that for every Olympic level hockey player/rower there are many many very average or really quite bad ones
The good thing about the hockey is that everyone gets a go, and the C and D teams get as many matches as the A and B (certainly for the first 2-3 years, when they diversify into the other sports)

It is a bit all consuming in that they do a lot of stuff, but you can pick and choose in reality - it can seem overwhelming when you see what is on offer, but they try lots of things and they very soon identify what they like and what they don't and pick stuff accordingly.

I can confirm that the pastoral care is brilliant and not just on an emotional/academic support level, for eg I just spent half an hour on the phone to dd's rowing coach discussing a plan for a back issue she has and how to rehabilitate it - she is NOT olympic rowing material at all, but they treat everyone as if they were in this sort of respect. I think the students feel very supported.

I guess it is a fairly intense experience, but in a good way. They children do seem invested in the school, much more so than I ever remember being! Somehow it manages to feel quite laid back at the same time, it is not massively formal and the discipline is fairly light touch in comparison to some other schools I have heard of.

However if that sort of environment wouldn't suit your

whoops sorry

If that sort of environment wouldn't suit your child there are plenty of other schools on offer as you know!

I think that's my problem, CountessDracula. I just don't know what to do for the best.

I think my DD1 would benefit from being pushed, but wouldn't benefit from feeling under massive pressure. Her self esteem isn't great, (I don't really know why) and I feel her confidence could be easily knocked in a hothouse. She'd probably fare better being top of the pile somewhere rather than middling in a super-selective.

I really was conflicted by KGS...

Anyway, will calm self. We've only seen two and we have a year to decide. KGS really did get me quite agitated!

The open morning at WHS today was very impressive. They have around 60 places for new girls and around 40 come in from junior. Around 600 girls give the exam so nearly 1/10 for each place. Very tough to get into but didn't sound too pushy or hot house a school itself. PHS next!

Yes, I (and dd) were impressed by the can do attitude and the sense of empowerment at WHS. I rather like that they don't have shiny new buildings for everything, a bit of shabbiness shows they spend the money on things other than facilities (like teaching), and I prefer that.

I also really liked the Head letting the girls answer questions rather than just giving pre-prepared speeches - she was clearly ok with them answering unpredictably.

It did strike me that they are trying to be like SPGS, with their 'creative' paper and small group assessment (which sounds very similar to the SPGS 'comprehension' paper and observed lesson).

You have to break down those numbers applying though. Some will be applying for as many as six schools and their first choice may well be a different school. Not to mention those just having a "punt". Numbers do seem to be creeping up year on year though

Oh god, she was wonderful. I think I have a bit of a crush. Could be awkward...

Yes she was very good
I'm currently debating whether or not to look at Putney next week

SPGS doesn't have an observed lesson and its comprehension paper is very different and far more challenging than the WHS creative paper. WHS appears to be a wonderful school but GDST fees are significantly lower than other schools of this calibre and I suspect it is that (rather than the money being spent on teaching) that affects the standard of facilities you see. You do get great value for money though!

In other news, I went to the open evening at Coombe. I don't know whether my expectations were too high, or I'm just completely clueless about the differences between state and private, but...

I really wasn't impressed. And I'm a bit gutted about it. I mean, it's like the 12th best non-selective state school in the damn country, so should be up there with as good as it gets, right?

The whole evening was chaotic. Couldn't see very much. Teachers in their subject rooms just standing there not really engaging with girls or parents. Really busy – couldn't really find out much.

Kicked the evening off with 'Coombealot' production - designed, iIthink, to impart the usual info in a creative and humorous way. I applaud the desire to do something creatively different, but my god, it was dire. Mumbled lines. Girls wafting around being dragons. It would have been appropriate for a primary school, but this is the school I'm looking at to get my daughter into university. It felt asinine and inappropriate.

And it made it harder to glean the info I wanted.

The school itself felt drab and scruffy. Girls were poorly turned out, and we were shown around by a monosyllabic girl who would hardly speak to us, who then just fucked off mid-tour because she 'had to go'.

We were left 'queueing' outside for a good 25 minutes before they'd let us in. No 'come into the hall and have a squash and look at some stuff on the walls'. Could have been organised better TBH.

Maybe I'm just a miserable privileged old cow. But I don't know...

Should I go again during a school day and try and get a more accurate idea of what they school is like on a normal day, do you think?

I SO badly wanted it to be good, but maybe my expectations have been raised unrealistically by the private ones I've seen.

Gah.

Oh yes, and boys in the sixth form. WHY!!!????

SPGS doesn't have an observed lesson

Ah, that's different from my day, then. I used to help out shepherding the kids doing the entrance exam from test to test, and as well as papers they had an observed science / investigation type lesson, plus a slot for PE / games - I think to let off steam and make it into a whole day's worth of activities. I couldn't tell from the website if SPGS still did that, and assumed they did. It's useful to know they don't, maybe the numbers are just too high now.

whycan't

I wonder your experience at Coombe is the same thing as Tiffin being so awkward about their open evening - they know they're hugely over-subscribed and are actually trying to put people off, rather than encourage them?

They don't need to though, do they. Admissions are done by the council, so it makes no difference to them how many apply... Unless maybe they're trying to put off all the snobby parents like me who might otherwise consider private, in a kind of "if you can afford private then fuck off and do that" way. Which I kind of understand.

Still it was all a bit odd. And a bit shit.

I hope my experience isn't out-of-date, but just thought I'd add it in case it's any use. I've had DDs at Putney, Wimbledon and Sutton. The one at Putney moved to Wimbledon for a number of reasons which I won't go into, but had a very positive experience for 5 years at WHS. They were good at keeping an essentially rather lazy child on her toes and getting the best out of her, but I do think the girls need not be of the "sensitive" variety! having said that, that particular DD has just graduated and was never there when the current head was, so I can't really comment. I do have a DN there though who is thriving.
DD2 went to Sutton. She got into WHS but is/was a more gentle soul and I wasn't convinced it was the right environment for her. She had a tough time through her teens, with anxiety, depression and OCD, but Sutton could not have been more caring and supportive. She missed weeks or school, on and off, but they went out of their way to help her catch up and organised sessions with their own counselling service. She's in her 2nd year at uni now so, as I say, my experience might be a bit dated, but the school management is still the same, I believe.

HTH

Apologies for multiple typos

St Johns used to have a "nice but dim" reputation, but I understand that has really turned around in recent years, with the new head and with the admission of girls.

It's still a bit of a trek down to Leatherhead when you have so many great schools much closer by, though

I think St Johns is worth a look then. Also with half a mind for DD2 - who is looking like a dance/drama/art kind of person rather than academically minded. She' only, so it's hard to say, but she's a different character to her older sister, for sure.

DP was dismissive, but his kids went to Wellington, so...!!

Thanks ReturnoftheSmartArse, That's really helpful. Wimbledon and Sutton are definitely top of the list so far for me. I don't honestly know whether to bother with Putney at all.

Sutton definitely did feel like the gentlest, most supportive, and, well, kindest environment, I think. I think that's what DD picked up on too. She can't explain why she loved it so much, but definitely had a very strong gut feeling.

The open day was the best by far - really got a chance to speak to teachers and see and participate with stuff going on.

It is still a whole day at SPGS, and there is some relaxed sport and some kind of gentle lesson but run by older girls I think - not observed (I think they played games or something - sounds like a hoot after a day of exams ). SO not so different. After the papers there is a shortlist for interview which is a pretty brief affair.
I don't know if SPGS and WHS still clash their entrance exam day but WHS were very accommodating about it and girls could sit the next day (although it was not advertised).

Thanks, polyjuice

OP I think I'll go to Putney, just to compare. And because dd was quite miffed to miss the parent-only open evenings we went to at other schools, and is keen to go and see for herself whenever possible.