Coombe Girls / Tiffin / Kingston Grammar / Surbiton High / Sutton High / Wimbledon High

[whycantwegoonasthree]

Hey wise women of Mumsnet,

What's your opinions/ insider knowledge of the above schools and am I missing anything?

They strike me as my best options in the area but I've only had the internet to go on, and a few brief chats with other mums from school (some of whom are a bit hyper about all this TBH...)

I'm in the enviable position of needing to move house before applying for schools and being afford to pay fees if I have to. (Only just, and I'd rather not obvs. but I can.) so my options are pretty open in that regard.

I have 2 DDs, currently in years 3 and 5 at a private prep – not our choice, we were unlucky about where we lived when it came to primary applications. I'm not snobby about it, in other words.

Eldest DD is, I think pretty bright, but a bit lacking in self confidence. She's been talking with her peers and is hell-bent on Tiffin - but the idea gives me chills - it sounds like a scarily competitive place and not especially nurturing. This is said on the basis of not much actual info though.

I went to a GDST school (on a scholarship as we were broke) and had a great time, so am positively disposed to them for that reason - but am unsure of how they differ from each other.

I know nothing of Surbiton High other than it looks very much like a GDST school from the website!

Coombe girls has great reviews, and it does look like I'd be nuts not to just buy a house in catchment and escape the whole selective stressy nightmare and the fees. And I would know that both my girls could go there, whatever happened, and I wouldn't have to go through all this again in 2 years.

But I currently live in Raynes Park, and this wold mean a move further West - which on the one hand would be a shame as I like it where I am, but may be a small price to pay for a guaranteed school place! (We'd get more for your money with houses too...)

I'd really appreciate your thoughts and insight if you wouldn't mind!

WCWGOA3

DD was unhappy at her original school so she moved to Sutton High and loved it there, everyone in her year was very kind and welcoming. It's not as academic as some schools but the girls still do well without a huge ton of pressure, plus the teachers are very supportive and understanding. We don't live in the area but this was never a problem since the transport round there is so good.

My DN went to Surbiton High and she enjoyed her time there, although it is a very big school compared to others in the private sector which put me off a bit, so it all depends on the type of school you're looking for. I don't know as much about the other schools but I hope this has helped a bit anyway :)

I don't mind doing a bit of googling for entrance exam requirements / types and pasting it to this thread:

WHS
What their website says
We test applicants to the school on Verbal Reasoning and Non-Verbal Reasoning plus a creative problem-solving writing task. We will not be giving out details about the creative task in advance - to keep an element of surprise!

Putney High
What their website says
We invite all candidates to sit examinations in English and Mathematics. The papers last one hour and 15 minutes. We try to ensure this process is as relaxed as possible.

Sutton High
What their website says
11+ entrance examinations are in Mathematics, English, Verbal and Non-Verbal Reasoning, and are devised by Sutton High School, based on the Key Stage 2 National Curriculum content.

I'll try and do KGS, Emanuel and SPGS later.

It's interesting how hard it is to find out what the papers actually are based on - as in whether Bond or GL or something else. I'll keep looking.

SPGS
Pre-test
Found a good, recent thread about it here

What the website says about the exam itself
Places at St Paul’s are highly sought after and the entrance procedure will therefore always be competitive. The school’s purpose is to provide an education suited to girls of outstanding intellectual potential and in selecting candidates, we take great care to gather as much information as we can on which to base a sound judgement. We want girls to be happy and thrive once they arrive here.

It is also important for us to be able to identify over prepared candidates who may perform well in our assessments but who are unable to sustain the required pace when they join the school.

The sample papers available below are published to provide examples of possible examination material. However, they are intended as guidance only and it should be noted that the format of the papers may change year on year.

Entrance Examination Guidance

English

The English paper involves the close reading of a passage of literary prose. Candidates are asked to answer up to ten questions on the passage. Some will involve the extraction of information, some will ask for comment on the meaning and effect of individual words and phrases. Although there are no specific marks for technical accuracy, we are always keen to see correct spelling and punctuation. We are particularly interested in signs of genuine enjoyment and engagement, together with careful inference and sensitivity to linguistic effects. Some of the questions will be extended imaginative writing tasks based on the passage. There is no separate creative writing section. Though we like to see evidence of a wide vocabulary, there is no need to learn and use unusual or obscure words.

Mathematics

The mathematics paper comprises of a mixture of questions which are designed to identify potential. The paper has three 25 minute sections. The first section will feature questions that are fairly straight-forward ‘sums’, designed to establish fundamental arithmetic concepts are in place. The second section will cover questions which are more problem-solving in style and the third section may have multi-part questions; these questions will be based on material the girls may never have seen before.

The questions will be based upon a range of topics all of which are part of the National Curriculum up to KS2. We are not just testing techniques, but also looking for insight.

It is very important for candidates to show their working out. A wrong answer cannot be given any credit if it is not supported by working. The questions are designed to be interesting and sometimes amusing, and we hope the girls find sitting the paper an enjoyable experience.

Comprehension

The comprehension paper is based around a theme and is designed to test comprehension in its broadest sense. This includes the skills of deduction, inference, extraction and organisation of information as well as evaluation, comparison, identification of patterns and links, and logic. No prior knowledge is required although the KS2 scientific enquiry skills may be needed in the evaluation of material and presentation of data.

We are looking for ability to respond to a range of materials, which could be visual, numerical or written, and through comprehension, be able to draw pertinent conclusions about them. Above all, we are looking for girls with the potential to react perceptively to a range of stimuli. Many candidates enjoy this unusual paper very much.

Kingston Grammar
From the website
Examination papers are taken in English, Mathematics and Verbal Reasoning. Candidates will also be invited for a one-to-one interview with a member of staff which will either be of a general nature, or with an English or Mathematics focus (depending on the weaker subject).
The Mathematics and English papers are produced in-house and sample questions are available below.

Emanuel
Website just has specimen papers
here
Maths and English only.

Just to say the Manchester Grammar papers are really good to start with for practice (in Eng/Math and freely available).

Also - Really don't discount schools based on your perception of their attitude to arranging an open day - we had a great application process (and particularly a wonderful teacher who gave DD a challenging and fun interview) with LEH and in different circumstances I could have seen my daughter very happy there (and know people who were). They were also v accommodating at fitting us into a fully booked day on a cancellation.

Don't forget to ask the prep what their recommendations are, after all, that's what they are there for! It's usual to get a good steer in yr 5, with any final thoughts/changes right at the end of yr 5 or start of yr 6.

Whycan't, I assume your DD is at either HC or U. You will receive advice and a lot of help on finding the right school for your DD. HC does very well for senior schools as you can see from their comprehensive exit list for 2016, harder to find the specific details for U.

www.holycrossprepschool.co.uk/page/?title=Senior+School+Destinations+%2D+2016&pid=506

The only surprising thing I can see from HCs destination list is the number going on to co-eds from an all girls prep. My DD is Y11 and she did that when it was quite rare, things change very quickly.

If your DD is at HC you honestly do not need to worry! They prepare them better than any other school i know of.

She's not, nocamping she's at the other one... There have been so many changes there, that while I'm happy with the education she's receiving and she's really happy at school, I'm not sure how good they're going to be at advising re: school choices, TBH.

They've had a good record of girls going to good selective secondaries, and I know she works on the 'clever table' but it's so hard to know what that means in terms of where we should be aiming.

It would be really helpful to know what kid of prep would be best. Bond seems a relatively small amount of money to pay, but I'd like to know if it's the right option and will be covering the right stuff...

Other than that, I think yes, getting my hands on as many sample papers as possible and just seeing what she does with them in a really low-key way is probably a good idea, no?

That said, I just downloaded the Kingston Grammar 10+ ones and they scared the living shit out of me!

In terms of moving house it does seem like a good idea to move into catchment for Coombe Girls so at the very least we have a failsafe backup option, which will take some of the panic out of the situation for everyone mostly me.

OP. do be aware about moving costs - is the money you're going to be investing in your new house to try to guarantee a place at Coombe going to equal the cost of fees?
There are no guarantees with state school places, even if you live on the doorstep!
Good luck.

farangatang - Fair point, but I'll be moving anyway, my divorce settlement FINALLY came through, (3.5 years after the fact) so I can stop being a renter and buy a place again. So I figure I'd be daft not to buy in the catchment for Coombe Girls, given I have to buy somewhere…

Hard to see how we wouldn't get a place if we were well within catchment...

IN other news, went to Sutton High yesterday. DD loved it. I confess so did I. Got a really lovely vibe around the place and the girls I met were completely charming, natural and full of bubbly enthusiasm for their school and subject. Head and leadership team seemed really approachable too.

Be good to get an idea of HOW academically tough it is to get in if anyone has any insight. (Anecdotal is fine!)

Coombe is good and it is free!

Don't bother with Tolworth or Hollyfield.

I have heard good reports about Kingston Academy next door to Tiffins

Surbiton High must be doing something right as it is big. There are buses delivering hoards of girls on a daily basis

I hadn't even found Tolworth or Hollyfield Horridemma!

I found St John's School and then almost immediately discounted it as 'sporty' (i.e. for the not very bright...)

We're in a very similar position (DD in Y5 at a prep school), except we moved a few years ago from RP to New Malden specifically so we were in catchment for the state secondaries...

Been to see Surbiton High - it's clearly a very active, busy school. Lots to do and their most recent results are very good. It's definitely not for us, but that's a personal thing rather than because I don't think it's a good school. They seem to take more girls each year, and if we were interested I'd want to know whether the quieter girls have any chance of being in a play, making a sports team (even if it's a C team), etc. And I do query how much personal attention a girl can get in a school that's practically as big as a state comp. But I didn't discuss any of that with SHS as I knew it wasn't right for my DD so they may have perfectly good answers.

We went to the Coombe open day last year and we liked what we saw. The facilities are clearly not as polished as a private school would be, but the girl who took us round seemed happy there and greeted various teachers warmly and was warmly greeted back. We will go back to look properly, that was really just a "what is this high school thing about?" visit. As you say, not paying for fees would be a real bonus and if there is a good state school available it would be silly not to consider it.

Sutton High - we have a friend with a DD in the prep there. From what she tells us it's not impossibly difficult to get into, so someone on the "clever table" (as you mentioned) should be ok. Her DD has been very happy there, having moved from another prep which was much more of a hot house.

Tiffin - I am also finding it really hard to find info how best to prepare for the exams. The 11+ website is quite useful, though you need to set aside a morning to trawl through. I swing between thinking DD should just write the exam on a "nothing ventured, nothing gained" basis and writing it off as a hot house. One thing I have gathered is that unless you live in the preference area there is no point doing the exam, so unless you move from RP I wouldn't bother.

We're planning to see KGS and LEH (next year when Y5s are let in!). We're also looking at St Catherine's (Twickenham) and Holy Cross (state secondary in New Malden), but we're Catholic so no issues with the faith thing which I know you're not keen on repeating.
Wimbledon High is out for us - again, personal reasons rather than because it's not a good school.

I really want DD to go somewhere where she can make local friends she can travel to school with, and when she's older can go to the movies with, grab a coffee with etc without excessive parental involvement and driving. So the further afield schools (Ibstock, Putney, schools in Surrey) are off our list - LEH is about as far as we'd go.

So all of that is not much help in answering your questions, but we're in much the same boat so I feel your pain!

Sutton High is not hard to get into at all. It's the backup for a lot of more academic schools so I can hink they make a lot of offers as they know most candidates will turn them down.

PamBeasleyHalpert, that's reassuring, if surprising... I thought it was a lovely school and seems to have very strong teaching and great results... What are people turning it down in favour of?

Because the exam is before Christmas a lot of people use it for practice and to have an offer in the bag before the rest of the exams as a bit of a confidence booster. I've known people turn it down for Surbiton, Putney, Wimbledon, KGS etc as those are perceived to be more academic. Everyone I know whose dds have gone there have been happy with it, although I've heard the 6th form is very small and that seems to put girls off from staying on after GCSEs.
I really liked the school when I visited but ultimately went for a closer school

KGS open day is this Saturday. Not limited to any year group afaik.
The information evening for parents is this Thursday.

Sutton High suffers from competition from the local grammar schools, like Nonsuch and Wallington Girls. I wouldn't say it's 'easy' to get into, as I do know of some girls who were not offered places there (although it is easier to get into than the other GDST schools like Wimbledon High and Putney High). But I think your DD will be fine based on what you said before :)

Hi there,
Tiffin is extremely competitive as you get the private school DS trying for a non fee paying school and their papers are the hardest in South/West London.

if you want to see LEH - please see it during the day in summer, we had a lovely time going around the school. Putney high is very good too. Surbiton was ok but their sports ground was somewhere else so we couldn't see it & didn't like the idea of having to travel to the sports ground.

If you are in Raynes park, please consider Nonsuch, the exam is much easier than Tiffin and they still give place to out of catchment applicants where as with Tiffins there is no chance.

If looking for Independent, wouldn't you consider Godolphin and SPGS - both good schools. DD is at SPGS and there is coach from Wimbledon.

If she is already at a Prep she will not need a tutor, your help at home should be enough.

We were from state school and DD went to a group tuition, which helped initially but I did a lot of work with her too. At state schools they do not cover material for 11 plus hence extra work was required at home.

Nanglo789 Unfortunately, the SPGS bus only runs from the Village, not much use if you live anywhere down the hill in the cheap bit.

Did anyone else go to the KGS Open Day / Evening? I was quite impressed, I liked the focus on independence and pastoral care.

There's a couple more Open Days coming up, WHS and PHS on the next two Saturdays.

Suttingsucks there are quite a few girls in Wimbledon who go to LEH - I don't think she'll have rouble finding girls to travel with.

Nanglo789 - just to clarify the Nonsuch first stage is the same as the boys sit for Sutton namely the SET - I think to say it was 'easier' than Tiffin is completely misleading. DS1 sat both the SET and for Tiffin boys - they were both of similar difficulty - the only difference he noticed was that Tiffin Maths tried to test more basic arithmetic and then catch you out with three or four step word problems.
Tiffin Girls exam I would imagine would be a similar level of difficulty to Tiffin Girls at first stage hence why I'm mentioning this.