Why do this group of kids dislike my DD?

[Titsywoo]

DD just started year 8. She struggled a bit in year 7 as she didn't get on with anyone in her form bar one girl as they are mainly very loud and she is more quiet and a bit socially awkward. She made friends with a couple of small groups of girls then got dropped very quickly. Eventually she got involved with a club that meant she didn't have to go to form room in the mornings and she made friends with girls in other forms so was pretty happy.

The 'popular' group in her class however seems to have taken against her for some reason. They call her weird and either ignore her (which she is fine with!) or do things like tell her a certain boy fancies her and push him towards her. He gets cross and says he hates her because of this. The other boys in the group moan and groan if they have to sit next to her. The girls take the mickey out of her. She just ignores it all but it can't be nice for her.

The thing is she is the sweetest kid I know. Always so kind and looking out for others. She is a wonderful friend (as her current friends tell her all the time). I suppose being a bit socially awkward (due to a lack of confidence) might make her seem a bit standoffish and she won't let people copy her schoolwork which pissed a couple of people off (not this group though).

So neither of us understands it. A few of the teachers are aware of the issues and keep an eye on these kids but she often gets groups with them anyway (luckily for the subjects where they are set she isn't with them as she is in the top and they are mainly in the bottom).

Any ideas? I feel bad for her when she says "I din't understand why they hate me Mum - I haven't done anything!)

Poor girl. She sounds lovely. Unfortunately nice people are not always popular. Sometimes niceness is viewed as a form of weakness.

Groups can 'bond' through bullying and excluding people. There doesn't even have to be a valid reason. It happens for the flimsiest, whimsical reasons and it seems to me once it happens, it's almost irreversible.

Glad to hear she's refusing to let them copy her homework. I would focus on teaching her to become a little bit more assertive.

She still mightn't be popular but the bullies will probably back off a bit. It'll also give her a feeling of control.

Tell when a group of not very nice, and insecure, people get together, they often use people outside the group to reassure themselves that their group is the right one to be in, by being mean and bullying them. It barely even matters who that person is. Unfortunately they have picked her, but it is nothing that your dd has personally done, or anything about her personality that has caused it.

Is the school doing anything other than 'keeping an eye' on them?

She may be a lot stronger than you think . My Dd was like this in the early years of secondary school. I told her to stand up for herself but she told me " I'm not retaliating or swearing at them , that's what they are looking for " . My dd stuck with one or two very quiet friends , that's what she was comfortable with , and although the silly bullying carried on my Dd was happy just letting them have their laughs and they soon got bored . If your not happy with the situation email the school or see the student welfare team and tell them it's got to stop .

You've done amazing and so has your daughter encourage her to access lots of groups to make like minded friends like guides etc the morning group sounds fantastic it really is about her knowing her worth and keeping her self esteem high xxx this will give her so many skills in later life . As for the horrors the school needs to do a little more than keep an eye but whilst your waiting / pushing for this encourage her to know they don't like themselves actually they are the ones with the issues. She sounds lovely xx

All I can say is that the 'popular' group all hate each other too. It may seem like they are a cohesive group but the petty bitchnes is ever present. Your daughter is smart she will have the friends she deserves.

Maybe if she's a little bit more aggressive they'll leave her alone? Sometime you have to give as good as you get I'm afraid.

So difficult! T he school should be doing more than "keeping an eye".
Can she move form to where her friends are? Good that she isn't in their teaching groups. I would just avoid them as much as possible.

Ditto what Kenlee says re the 'popular' group all hate each other too. It may seem like they are a cohesive group but the petty bitchness is ever present. They're only a group because each person is scared to not be in the group incase they turn on them - safety in numbers etc.

They don't have to like her but the way they're behaving is completely out of line. Report everything. The school must stop this bullying.
You say she's socially awkward. How have you addressed this and what have you tried to build her confidence?

OP - have you ever read that great letter that Caitlin Moran published in the The Times containing advice to her daughter should she die etc...

This quote is all your DD needs to know.

“The main thing is just to try to be nice. You already are – so lovely I burst, darling – and so I want you to hang on to that and never let it go. Keep slowly turning it up, like a dimmer switch, whenever you can. Just resolve to shine, constantly and steadily, like a warm lamp in the corner, and people will want to move towards you in order to feel happy, and to read things more clearly. You will be bright and constant in a world of dark and flux, and this will save you the anxiety of other, ultimately less satisfying things like ‘being cool’, ‘being more successful than everyone else’ and ‘being very thin’."

Poor girl. Help her to change form if there are friends of hers in different forms?

I was all set to talk to the school last year about these kids and even made an appt with her form tutor and head of year but she became so distressed and said she really didn't want me to meet with them and it would make things worse. I battled in my own head about whether to go ahead or not but in the end decided that I would cancel for now. Partly because she was so upset and partly because I didn't want her to stop confiding in me.

She told a couple of teachers herself that these kids were causing her issues in class which is when they said they would keep an eye out.

Today she has come home upset as her actual friends were involved in conversations and dramas at lunch and noone spoke to her even when she said hi.

I guess she just feels a bit invisible. She has always struggled with standing up for herself and people walking all over her since primary school. DH and I are pretty confident people and we have tried to help her grow in confidence but it's hard when it's not in her nature. She goes to Guides outside of school which is good for her and we do some running together plus she loves art and does lots of that.

It's hard to know what to do. I give her lots of advice on what she could try in certain situations and she takes it on board but I doubt she has the nerve to speak up.

Oh and she does have a couple of friends outside of school and sees them a bit. She also sees some of these school friends but they all knew each other from primary school so it's been hard to break in and often at birthday parties they get involved in a hobby they all do and ignore DD. This happened at a sleepover last weekend.

My dd (who is good natured) had a similar problem at primary school. She wasn't liked by the cool (horrible) kids and their hangers on. There were nice kids in her class too, but the cool ones made her feel unpopular. She's been lucky at high school as she's in quite a good natured class. There are two tough girls, but they don't seem interested in being horrible to dd luckily.
I honestly think some classes are just nicer than others and it's just luck. I'd advise you to raise it with the school and ask for her to move to a form where she has friends. A girl was moved into dd's form at the end of year 7 from another class. (I don't know why) and she has settled in well.

Could you speak to the school or email and explain that dd was distressed last time about you meeting them so can they just approach it as if they are having a catch up about how she's getting on? I don't think they'd be able to help otherwise

I cannot understand why the horrid children are the ones seen as 'cool' at school and those who are genuine, mature and decent people, so often outcast. Perhaps it is to do partly with a lack of assertiveness, but more likely to be just 'because' they happened to choose her. Y8 is a particularly bad time for this with girls, too.

My heart goes out to her and I hope she is reassured by knowing that the 'real world' doesn't usually work this way - she will develop resilience and compassion that others who haven't been through this nasty experience cannot and be a more valued and valuable friend and human being in the long run.

Big generalisation from some research I once read, but it gives me some satisfaction to know that the 'popular' children in school are often less successful in life once school concludes - they are in for a shock when everyone has grown up and they are still operating at a juvenile level.

If your daughter is happy to stick it out at the school once a strategy to manage it has been developed, then good on her. If not, have you considered moving her? From my DD's experience, a move was the best thing we ever did for her!

I wouldn't approach it from a "Why don't they like her?" perspective. They don't sound like nice kids and you know yoir dd is nice. Approach it more from a "how can i move my dd away from the horrible kids towards some nicer ones."

Yes agreed Colonel although I never wonder to her why they don't like her. I guess I'm wondering if she is doing something 'wrong' socially. I've never noticed anything when she is with friends here at home but since I can't see her at school it's hard to say. Her younger brother has Aspergers and struggles a lot socially so I tend to worry anyway (really not looking forward to him starting secondary next year!).

She definitely doesn't want to move schools. Even though her new friends aren't quite the right fit IMO she really likes them and doesn't want to leave them. Also if she has struggled at primary and secondary chances are she will anywhere. Moving forms is a possibility but she's nervous about moving and having problems with other kids - I think she did get a bad class tbh but have no idea what the others are like.

I would see if she can move forms

She's being bullied

This is beyond 'keeping an eye out"

The school should be able to manage a way of dealing with this that your daughter can cope with. They can take her aside unobtrusively. They can tell the bullies that they have been overheard by a teacher.

I would really recommend a day course for her and you run by Kidscape, the anti-bullying charity. It's called ZAP

www.kidscape.org.uk/projects/zap-anti-bullying-and-assertiveness-workshops/

Zap anti-bullying and assertiveness workshops

Also, the book Bullies, Bigmouths and so-called Friends is quite good.

The teachers will know what the other classes are like and might know which will be a better fit for her. It's possible your dd is slightly quirky. My dd can be mildly eccentric and isn't cool, which may be partly why she was easy prey for the nasties at her primary. It's no excuse though. She didn't suddenly change between the end of year 6 and beginning of year 7, she just ended up with a more tolerant bunch and made a nice bunch of friends.
Yoda's advice is good. Make sure you enquire about all the settling in help available to your son when he starts.

Hi OP. Just to sympathise massively as we are dealing with similar issues. My DD started y7 well and made 2 really close friends and a wider group they hung out with on and off.
But things got harder during the year and those 2 have moved away from her and she has started yr 8 feeling quite alone and not at all sure what changed so suddenly. She is a nice quiet kid and it feels like those attributes don't really fit at secondary school and don't make you
Someone others want to hang out with. I'm trying to do as you are to support and listen and suggest how she can handle things but oh my goodness it's not easy and I do totally understand!

Because kids are mean and when someone doesn't carbon copy into their group they bond through hating an 'other' figure - sadly in this case your DD.
It's the whole 'of someone's on the outside then I'm on the inside' mentality and it's awful

Thanks all. Sorry your dd is going through similar whacky. It's very upsetting for them and for us to watch.

Dd told me she was called out of a class today to see her head of house. She had mentioned problems with these kids to her geography teacher at the end of last term and it seems she has passed the info on. They asked for info on incidents and how she is feeling. Sounds like they gave the measure of these kids already and they have been in trouble several times. So hopefully something will happen. I feel a bit like I've let her down by now storming into the school and in the end dd has sort of dealt with it herself :( I guess I made the wrong decision not pushing her to have that meeting with her form tutor last term.

by not storming into the school