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Secondary education

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Original poster

Not allowed to do Maths A'level....with an A

113 replies

AppleQueen · 31/08/2017 15:42

So DS has just been told he will not be allowed to do A'level Maths. He got an A grade rather than an A*. Head says experience shows, those doing Maths A'level with only an A at GCSE will only manage to scrape a D. So puff goes ds's dream to study engineering. Really gutted for him.

OP posts:
oddexperience · 31/08/2017 18:18

Got somewhere else. I got an A (two years ago) at GCSE. This year I got an A at a-level. That subject saved my skin getting into uni. Another sixth form will definatly take him

Piggywaspushed · 31/08/2017 18:19

Trouble is these days, rather than looking at the individual, their track record,attendance , effort, schools are resorting to statistical , likely outcomes (ignoring completely that stats contain'most likely' outcomes and therefore suggest plenty achieve above and below these!). All of this to maintain league table position etc.

My DS got a version of this the other day when his sixth form college told him he had a 70% chance of failing A Levels! They misunderstood their own stats. Teachers are not statisticians.

Maths generally has an elitist higher entry requirement than other A Level subjects but A* or nothing is silly, especially this year. And nothing would suggest an A grade GCSE student can't be an engineer!

Original poster
AppleQueen · 31/08/2017 18:20

Oddexperience - Congratulations! That's exactly the kind of encouraging news I need to hear.

OP posts:
Piggywaspushed · 31/08/2017 18:20

note to noble - most teachers are not statisticians :)

DakotaFanny · 31/08/2017 18:22

Teacher here- not Maths. I think it is fair to say that you shouldn't do an A'level in anything you didn't get a B or above in at GCSE (ideally an A, but we don't always get the choices, do we). The jump from Year 11 to 12 is large and requires far more independence than GCSE (in my subject anyway, where they are hand fed for success throughout KS4).

Your DCs experience seems extreme to me but i would have thought Maths is much more an innate ability than some subjects, so it's plausible. Blimey though! Tough rules!

oddexperience · 31/08/2017 19:08

Applequeen: happy to help 😁 if your DS is motivated and keen on his future career path he can do it! It is a big jump and hard work but it pays off!

noblegiraffe · 31/08/2017 20:07

If a school is saying that in their experience kids who have As go on to scrape Ds then they're telling you their teaching isn't very good. And you're paying for it! Most likely they just want an easy ride and to protect their stats.

This graph shows impact of GCSE result on A-level result. It is biased towards high performers as it only records those who took the subject past AS (pretty much no one takes A-level with a C and most of those who take it with a B stop at AS level). But you can see the picture for those with an A who continue to A-level (which is the majority of students) is way better than 'most likely scrape a D'.

But your DS will need to hit the ground running. He should have been doing bridging work over the summer and should be revising now ready to start. Many colleges have a short test a couple of weeks in to see if your basics are good enough.

Not allowed to do Maths A'level....with an A
noblegiraffe · 31/08/2017 20:07

piggy Grin

Original poster
AppleQueen · 31/08/2017 20:47

Thanks Noble, that's very useful info.

OP posts:
Couchpotato3 · 31/08/2017 20:52

That just doesn't make sense. Does the school have another agenda here? Do they want to get rid of him, or were his other grades poor? Is there something else going on?
Not surprised you are looking elsewhere!

millifiori · 31/08/2017 20:55

And they wonder why there's a shortage of maths teachers...
I'd shop around. Some schools would be delighted to take him with an A grade, indy, state or a 6th form college - somewhere is bound to take him and his ambitions seriously. I know someone who's just completed their MSc in Engineering who got a C at A level.

Witchend · 31/08/2017 22:45

noblegiraffe
That's an interesting chart but I would wonder how accurate it is for certainly C grade, and possibly B for a standard 16yo continuing straight into 6th form.

We can see from on here, it seems to be unlikely most places will take 6th formers on from a C, and fairly unlikely they will be taken on from a B.
Firstly, that means the numbers will be relatively small, but also presumably a certain number of those are taken on with special circumstances (eg they thoroughly expected an A/A* but made a hash on the day) or are mature students who may only be doing maths A-level which means they can concentrate on it.

Titanz · 31/08/2017 22:47

Wow this is terrible! So they don't really give a shit about the kids, just their influence on school stats?

noblegiraffe · 31/08/2017 23:12

Witchend I'd ignore it for Bs and Cs because most B and C grade students who start maths in sixth form don't make it to A-level, they crash and burn at AS so on that graph are the outliers (especially at C grade).
70% of A grade students who take AS do progress to A-level (these stats were from 2012 so I think this could be higher now as maths is now the most popular A-level) so the graph is a better indicator for these students.

Copperbeech33 · 01/09/2017 08:57

It isn't unreasonable, it is up to the school. Its about a half and half split, I would say, around half of sixth forms will insist on A* to do maths. Around half will let in lower grades.

My son's school turned down some applicants WITH A*, saying they hadn't scored high enough and wouldn't cope

Find a school that lets him try, it shouldn't be hard to get accepted. Whether he would cope with the course or not remains to be seen, some do with only an A, some don't.

frazzled3ds · 01/09/2017 09:03

Just to add in my experience (20 years ago) - I got an A in GCSE Maths, and scrapped an E in AS Maths. I started doing the full A level Maths, failed 4 modules out of 6 so was downgraded to take the AS in which I got an E, even with additional tutoring. As previous posters have said, if he's good with algebra, and elements such as mechanics, then he may well be ok, but it is without doubt quite a leap from GCSE to A Level standard.

Good luck finding somewhere that will let him do it - if he's dead set on his career choices then I'm sure he'll put in the work needed to succeed :)

TheFallenMadonna · 01/09/2017 09:12

Half of sixth forms demand an A* for Maths? Double Maths/IB Higher, yes. Maths, no. Not for any of the 6th form providers (state) in this area. If you are talking about private, then maybe.

Copperbeech33 · 01/09/2017 09:17

no, I am talking state.

TheFallenMadonna · 01/09/2017 09:18

Where?

TheFallenMadonna · 01/09/2017 09:19

Oops, bit inappropriate, sorry! But I think your area is possibly unusual...

Copperbeech33 · 01/09/2017 09:19

although we sometimes fill up a class with A grade students, they will have to wait until all the A* students have decided if they want to do maths or not, then be ranked according to actual UMS, and the highest scoring A grade students might be let in, if there are places. They would have conditions to meet, and might be asked to drop maths at the end of year 12, if conditions are not met.

bambambini · 01/09/2017 09:20

Surely they should be given the chance to go for it and you could possibly back up with tuition or something. Have a child going into yr 11 so this is just round the corner.

TheFallenMadonna · 01/09/2017 09:23

You don't make an offer then? You ask people to wait and see if there's space?

TheFallenMadonna · 01/09/2017 09:24

Again, that is not my experience.

Copperbeech33 · 01/09/2017 09:25

The offer will be A, once everyone who has an offer has accepted, then there will be a waiting list. Students who want to do maths but only got an A, will be on the waiting list. We have actually once taken everyone with an A, then took a couple of students with a B. In other years, the spaces were all filled with A students.