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Original poster

English GCSE remark : expert objective advice needed!!

602 replies

Piggywaspushed · 28/08/2017 19:56

Ok, I have been batting this round on a few threads and need to preface this by saying I am an English teacher... but it isn't helping me at all!

DS got a 5 in Lang and a 6 In Lit. Both below (rather generous ) target grades of 7.
We d found out he was 5 UMS marks into 5 in Lang and therefore needs 8 marks (I think) to get a 6. Not normal remark territory and I'd be terrified of him being downgraded.

However, I have now found out his breakdown and it is bizarre:

Language paper 1

1.4/4
2.4/8
3.3/8
4.12/20
5.8/24 + 6/16

Language paper 2

1.4/4
2.5/8
3.5/12
4.6/16
5.18/24 + 11/16 (this is amazing compared to paper 1!)

The last wording is not mine but the HOD.

The discrepancy between P1 and P2 is marked and the section Bs are the real oddity given that they aren't very different tasks. I have checked and he did paragraph. You also need to know his spelling is highly proficient. He has that teenage predilection for commas and probably didn't use much punctuation other than full stops and commas. His handwriting is hard to read sometimes but he does tend to write quite lengthy answers and was (before the exams) quite confident in jumping through the hoops of each question.

I would be interested to hear from fellow English teachers who have no emotional investment in this what they might advise? I'd like Paper 1 looked at - but once seen it can't be remarked.

I know a 5 is 'good enough' but he is a better student than that. In one of his lit papers he missed an 8 by one mark!

Any thoughts gratefully received.

OP posts:
SpiralArchitect · 21/09/2017 16:54

DD's teacher wasn't free today for the breakdown, but we have the OCR review outcome sheet saying "Marking Difference". I should say so!

It wasn't even as though a question was unmarked; the original breakdown had marks for all questions, just very low ones...fortunately the reviewer thought it was a serious undermark.

Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 21/09/2017 17:17

How on earth could an examiner be that thick ???

I never quite understand what schools can do under such circumstances - but imagine fi a review hadn't been requested on the paper? It's beyond all belief!

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Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 21/09/2017 17:19

And, as an afterthought... that will have been several different examiners?? Weird...

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SpiralArchitect · 21/09/2017 20:27

I have no idea how OCR have their papers marked, Piggy - I know AQA have different markers for each Q.

Imagine those people expecting a 5-6 and who achieved that, they wouldn't question it...but in reality, they might have a much higher grade.

I am tempted to ask DD's teacher to send a strongly worded letter to the exam board...

Monkey2001 · 21/09/2017 21:12

There is a lot of unfairness. DS did WJEC for English, so at least we could get the scripts and make an informed decision. I do not understand how AQA get away with not making scripts available - particularly annoying for people like Piggy who have the skills to assess whether they have been fairly marked. The poor mum on TSR did not know she could have got the papers before requesting the review.

Our school is moving to Edexcel for several subjects because availability of scripts free and quickly enables fairness. They do not suggest re-marks to parents as some could not afford it.

Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 21/09/2017 21:31

I did not know you could do that with WJEC : is that specifically in Wales?

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Monkey2001 · 21/09/2017 21:47

Scripts free from Edexcel - school staff with access just download them (with permission from the students), and for a fee from OCR and WJEC. We were actually EDUQAS, the english arm of WJEC. I ordered the papers 31st August and got them back next day.

Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 21/09/2017 22:02

Right. I thought it was only Edexcel where you could see the scripts first!

Note to self!

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Monkey2001 · 21/09/2017 22:41

We had to pay £12 for priority and £11 after 31st Aug.

Felt very frustrated by the state school system as the school had said that we had to request priority scripts and reviews by noon the day after results as the exams officer would not be in after that, but we were still trying to work out whether we had any queries and had not been given the english marks, just grades.

Friends in grammar and private school had much more support in their attempts to squeeze higher grades out, I would not have requested any if they had not encouraged me. May still turn out not to have been worthwhile - we will see!

EllieFredrickson · 21/09/2017 22:51

Spiral

Blimey that's shocking. I thought DD's 34 mark jump was bad enough but the one for your DD sounds like it must be even bigger! Same scenario though - not an admin error just shocking marking. I just don't understand how these differences in papers don't flag somehow.

We are considering an Ofqual complaint about AQA.

Agree about access to script unfairness and will be tackling Ofqual on that too.

EllieFredrickson · 21/09/2017 22:53

Piggy

Meant to say hope you hear soon. It's you that brought us all together!

tararabumdeay · 21/09/2017 23:13

Well, the reviews/remarks AQA Eng Lang are nearly all in now. No more have increased above the 'pass mark' grade boundary on 9 -1. Many have gone down 4 or 5 points and another by 11 points but the grade maintained at a grade 3. These students will be entered for the November resit as they were so close.

Minus 11 is a desperate misjudgment in marking though.

We want our students to achieve a grade 4 or above.

There was one increase out of three reviews on the legacy spec from a D to a C; other two stayed same or went down 5 UMS.

One of the adult learners paid for a review to get 3 marks up from a 6 to a 7. The result stayed the same.

So, we've had a minus 11 to a plus 9 extremes out of about 20 submitted for review so far. Some plus 3 or 4; some minus 4 or 5; some stayed the same - that's normal and to be expected.

Any Maths teachers out there though to analyse the minus 11 and plus 9 in regard to miscellaneous marking?

Cafeconleche · 21/09/2017 23:40

Minus 11 tarara ShockConfused OMG - that's awful! I was finally emailed DS's English Language question breakdown of marks today at 6:30pm - so too bloody late to put them in for a review. Though after your post about such a catastrophic drop in marks I'm not sure I could have taken the stress of a re-mark. DS has moved on now and is enjoying his new SFC and A Level subjects. Time for me to do the same...

Notanothergiraffe · 22/09/2017 06:59

Minus 11 is scary! Is that on one paper or across both??

Notanothergiraffe · 22/09/2017 07:01

cafe that is really shut. I think you would have very good grounds for asking for a review past the deadline if you felt strongly.

That said i completely understand that the time may have come to move on. The mental energy this all takes is immense.

Notanothergiraffe · 22/09/2017 07:02

Or shit rather than shut!!

Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 22/09/2017 07:13

I find it very interesting that the later the reviews were submitted the less likely they seem to have ben to go up (as exam boards adjust towards maintaining usual averages of successful reviews ?? Me, cynical??)

monkey , I know why you feel the way you do but I am pretty sure redsrule is a state HOD and she has gone above and beyond. I think it is important to remember the difference in year group sizes between private and state schools : I know I bang on about it a bit, but at my school, to look at everyone for both subjects would equate to 1600 exam papers, which just is not tenable. It's another inequality in the system which makes parents like us so important to schools and DCs (and I never find the school all that grateful when a parent's intervention improves their data for them but that's another issue!)

This minus 11 thing is terrifying! I put in the p2 yesterday! He needs to go down by 9 to drop t a 4. And by 8 in the long awaited lit to drop to a 5. Knowing my luck...

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Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 22/09/2017 07:14

café, that's appalling!

I'd complain to the governors, if I were you, and that really is not in my nature.

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Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 22/09/2017 07:17

Thanks Ellie !

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Monkey2001 · 22/09/2017 07:55

Piggy - a more charitable interpretation of the drop in results gains is that the more "outrageous" results were submitted for review very early, while people dithered more over the marginal ones.

Also, I was not suggesting that our English dept should have reviewed all the results, just saying that we only had until midday the day after results day to think about getting priority scripts back (the ones which are guaranteed to arrive before you decide whether to challenge) and we had not been given marks, only grades. The exams office was officially closed from the afternoon of 25th August until school began, and it was only because I tried going in whilst they were doing 6th form interviews that I discovered somebody in the exams office had actually come in and she very kindly ordered them for me in time for the priority service. This service was available as standard for grammar and private school kids.

Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 22/09/2017 08:18

Indeed - we had the same with DS's exams officer. That's more to do with a stupid decision as to when to allow them to take annual leave I suspect. At my school, she takes hers in July.

I'm a bit confused because priority scripts is an A level thing?

But the grades , not marks, thing is coming from Ofqual and the exam boards : so the provision of exact mark breakdowns (or even the mark in the case of A level and GCSEs in Eng/Ma) is down to schools as to how that is managed: it's a scandalous passed on increase in workload to exams officers, teachers and so on and no one really seems cross enough about it in schools! So, again, that would be a small ish job in a private school - to provide marks for each paper, that is. Mark breakdowns, such as café wanted, are not provided as standard anywhere that I know of. I sometimes also think there is an issue of training with EOs who don't often seem to realise what parents/ depts. want and why.

As a leader of a sixth form subject, I was actually completely oblivious to the fact that they were no longer being given their marks, so the passing on of information form exam boards 9or form exams officers) has been woeful.

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Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 22/09/2017 08:19

And to be honest monkey I have been a SL for 8 years and had never ever known about priority scripts until this year!

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Monkey2001 · 22/09/2017 09:02

Piggy - what would we do without the internet?

Interesting extract attached from OFQUAL report of outcomes of post-results queries.

Good luck again!

English GCSE remark : expert objective advice needed!!
Monkey2001 · 22/09/2017 09:05

.... and the page I meant to send

English GCSE remark : expert objective advice needed!!
Cafeconleche · 22/09/2017 09:13

Thanks all - yes, I cannot tell you how frustrating it has been!! DS's old English teacher went above and beyond but, because DS typed, the mark breakdowns were not available to look at on line, so had to be a special request from the EO - who was off Monday and Tuesday of this week. The request finally went in on Wednesday and AQA got back to the school yesterday lunchtime with Lit and very late afternoon with Language. I would have appealed P1 Lit and P2 Language if I had known these marks a month ago to see if DS could gain enough marks to go up a grade in each, and then possibly the other 2 papers after that. But by yesterday, it was all or nothing for Lit and I had no clue about Language until 6:30pm. DS needs both the grades he already has for SFC so couldn't afford to go down and, even though I think some of the individual question marks are decidedly odd I feel that if we kick up a fuss and insist on a late review, DS is going to be made an example of (cynical, moi? Hmm). It took 2 goes with AQA for them to even admit that they had not actually marked the typed component of DS's Chemistry exam and one month after putting it in for the initial review he eventually gained enough extra marks to raise his whole Core Science by 2 grades.

So, for now, I have to chalk it down to experience and know how to play the game when it comes to A Levels. Anyway, thanks piggy for starting this thread - I have learned so much from all the posters - and I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for everyone still awaiting their reviews.