'top' independent schools are turning towards Btecs - article in the Times

[Showandtell]

The number turning towards BTECS and apprenticeships has doubled. Universities are no longer the best choice for many as they have devalued by lowering entry standards. Interesting.

Might the BTec thing, if true - I've not heard of any brings offered - be to game the ucas points they offer , supposedly oddly high?

Yes btec level 3 are equal to a levels.

I'm not sure it is for 'gaming' the system as top marks in the BTEC diploma are highly regarded. They are also not sending EVERYONE to uni so ucas not so relevant.

The new A levels are too 'narrowly focused' is one quote.

I would agree with this.

The 'number doubling' is meaningless! If there was one doing it and now there's two, that's not a headline.

OP - have you got a link? As this can be another weapon in my arsenal for defending BTEC!

Sorry just seen source in the thread title!

Its interesting that after years of saying BTECs are rubbish, not worth it and generally bad mouthing them, they are now fantastic because independent schools are doing them.

Boney

I read the article on twitter. About 500 kids across 400 independent schools did a btec. The university being devalued thing was bigging up level 4 apprenticeships.

Here's the article.

It was a poor article, and meaningless.
A few not very academic private schools offer them, certainly in the case of the school that must not be named in order to shamelessly play the points game. Wonder if the move next year to all btecs having to have an exam element will pull the results down 🤔
Increasingly universities are not making equal offers on btecs as those kids have been perfoming poorly once at uni.

Increasingly universities are not making equal offers on btecs as those kids have been perfoming poorly once at uni

Really? I've emailed several unis. Cardiff Birmingham, Keele, Plymouth, Southampton. All say they would make offers on btecs. Btec students are increasingly attractive the narrower a levels become.

My dd got DDD in BTEC and a high achievers scholarship, the same scholarship A levels student who achieve AAA are awarded.
There is no reason to suggest she will do poorly in uni, she is very academic.

Well my kids are at the top independent school (as opposed to 6th form college) and they are definitely not offering BTEC's. They also though are quite open about the fact that they provide a fairly specific education and that for a few kids each year the local state 6th form (also v academic but wider choice of subjects and less nurturing pastorally) is a better option. My dd - super independent, dyslexic and already decided to do engineering at unit may well be one of them.

(and can I just be childish for a second and say that todays result tables made me want to say yahboosucks to acquaintances back in London who were shocked that I would consider damaging my kids educational prospects by moving out of London)

Equal offers showandtell, not no offers.

I know a few independent schools (including the one Dd goes to) who do btecs. They are specialist performing arts schools deemed as being leading in their field.

500 isn't very many.

Gosh, do people in London really believe the rest of us in the country are under-educated? There are some great schools outside London! Rugby, Cheltenham Laides College, Benendon - so many! Perhaps they do not travel very far?

I think BTecs are attractive to children who will possibly not get above a C/D at A level with the new specifications. All but the most academic university courses take BTecs but you have to do well in them. Someone on another thread said Loughborough were no longer accepting BTecs on their Design courses. This turned out to be absolute rubbish when I looked at their website but snobbery, even for technical courses, still persists.

Having seen DS who whilst bright , did not great at A level and therefore miss his offers and then see my niece and several friends get into RG unis with AAB/AAC based largely on BTEC qualifications, I can definitely see the attraction. They didn't do them at my sons school.

One of the countries best musical theatre schools (GSA) ask for ridiculously high A level grades of AAA (considering they areca vocational course) but you can get in on a Btec Distinction. It's certainly a consideration for dd who is very academic but possibly will be a Grade B rather than A candidate.

Based on my experience with DD:

Getting a BTEC D ( or D D D for an extended diploma - 3 A level equivalent) is pretty hard. You basically need to ace every single piece of assignment work right from the start of y12. There is no room to have a slow start, then grasp what is needed half way through y12.

You also don't get to practice essays, get feedback, improve etc the way you can with A levels. Every piece of work goes into the final grading with next to no actual helpful feedback to help improve next time. To get the Distinction grades you needed to be able to do high standard research and analysis (and receive no guidance in how to do this).

Poor teaching teen for your DD. When i taught btec we most certainly were allowed and supposed to give guidance, feedback etc.

Could this be because of reforms to A levels meaning some subjects don't exist anymore?

Ds's non-selective, but still pretty academic, school used to only offer A levels, but included were several 'vocational' subjects such as travel and business. They've decided to offer a couple of BTecs now as, in the case, of travel, the A level doesn't exist (or Ofqual couldn't decide in time).

I think A levels are narrow. They measure how well people perform in 6 hours of tests after a 2 year course. Life, jobs and university isn't actually like that. Btecs test you all the way through, a mixture of coursework, practical work experience and exams. Students who have achieved DDD* have proved themselves just as able as A at a level students. Just in a different way.

One of the countries best musical theatre schools (GSA) ask for ridiculously high A level grades of AAA (considering they areca vocational course) but you can get in on a Btec Distinction

Yes that is because a Distinction is equivalent to an A grade A level! 🙄

D at BTEC = A at A level
D = A grade A level
M* = B grade A level
M = C grade A level

Etc etc

Sorry showandtell but I fundamentally disagree with you over that.
I am talking about science subjects now, both at BTEC and A level. Have taught both, now only teach A level.
Kids getting D, D are no way the equal of A, A kids.
One of my most difficult moments early on in my teaching career was with the mum of a kid i had nurtured through BTEC applied science. She got DD and mum ( who worked in the same school in a non teaching role) was fulsome in her praise for me, and in the same breath said her dd would be taking a year out and applying for medicine. She was a great kid, and worked really hard but would probably have also got DD for A levels in chem and bio. There is no parity at all between the supposed levels. I have got kids through level 2 BTECs with D, M in the past who would have been an F at best at GCSE.
I will be very interested to see the BTEC grades from some of the schools mentioned in that report next year, when compulsory exams for BTEC enter the field.