Triple/Double Science

[user1498121176]

Hello! Sorry about username - I'm ever so new.
My daughter's school has just announced that it will no longer be offering the triple science GCSE. She's about to enter year 10 and had thought she would be doing the triple.
The school says that it's to make sure that they get good grades and that 6th forms don't ask for triple and universities don't look at GCSE's. I'm not convinced by this at all. If a university is looking at offering a place to a student surely the one who has done the individual sciences will look better than those just doing a combined science. And I know that they do look at GCSEs as my bosses daughter couldn't do medicine because she didn't get an A* for chemistry GCSE.
However I'm well aware that education changes rapidly these days so my information may be outdated. So I guess does I would like to know your thoughts. Does it matter if they only do the double? Would it be harder to do the science A-Levels if they only do the double at GCSE? Do universities now not care about GCSEs?
Thank you so much!

Depends on the board etc but double is somewhat limited if you want to do A levels. For instance Physics double does not include the concept of vectors, which is absolutely critical to A level.

If only double is offered and A level is being considered, I would talk to the teacher about the most important bits left out and cover them independently (or with a tutor if you can afford it).

Currently attending uni open days with DD for a subject that requires A level biology & GCSEs to include B grade in triple or double sciences - they're being treated the same.

But vectors are not rocket science - they are easy to learn....if your dc want to do science A level they need to be prepared for a bit of independent study at some stage!

There is a huge summer holiday between GCSE and A Level, if a double science student wants to take one or more science A Levels then there is ample time for a motivated student to fill in the gaps themselves with things like textbooks, YouTube and Khan Academy. There are even CGP books aimed at that like this one

My daughter did the IGCSE double award. Took chemistry and biology at A level. Has two medical school offers for next year. Double science has never been an issue.

I didn't do further maths at GCSE level- I screwed around in Year 9 too much.....so I missed out on doing further rather and learning basic calculus....A level started with advanced calculus, teacher gave us lunch time lessons but my confidence was completely eroded and my faith in my ability zapped....but I am not my parents I am aware of what my kids need and in the unlikely event that they want to do science A level they will be given knowledge, support and assistance....they will not be like me...I will ensure they are made aware of what they need to learn, because I will ask which topic are doing first at A level and they can prepare for it in advance, if needed. The school will have all the teachers on hand on GCSE results day to have these conversations.

"If only double is offered and A level is being considered, I would talk to the teacher about the most important bits left out and cover them independently (or with a tutor if you can afford it)."

HOWEVER, if you are staying on in the SAME SCHOOL to do A-levels, they will start teaching from the starting point of double science, and there will be nothing at all 'left out'.

That's why, in my first point ion this thread, I pointed out that , in the research i did looking at schools with similar cohorts, there is no significant difference between schools which do double and then teach A-level from that starting point and schools that do triple and start A-level from that point.

The only gap arises if you move schools at 16 to one where the majority of those doing A-level science have done triple.

I know if ds decides to do A level science he'll put the extra work in. But for now with really poor science teaching (our school really struggle to recruit good STEM teachers), increased content and difficulty and no extra teaching time allocated - triple is too risky.

this is the real issue, there are no science teachers, that is what is causing problems, whether you do double or triple is irrelevant.

Blanket,

Vectors may not be 'rocket science' but they are conceptually tricky for many. Practice is really important.

Clearly, if you are a slam dunk A* A level candidate with a cognitive profile in the 140s/150s, you can easily teach yourself (the same goes for the whole A level really). However most pupils need teaching and cannot 'easily' catch up themselves. A Physics A level involves a fair amount of theory and practical work in a limited timetable. In addition most students these days have active social lives and waste time on social media.

I would say that a double award candidate does start at a considerable disadvantage to a triple award candidate and should try to mitigate this as early as possible.

Without a doubt A level physics is very hard and vectors may not be wee buns but there is much more difficult things to deal with in Physics ....it's the one science my dcs really don't want to take - at GCSE or A Level. But dd has just finished a year of really poor Science teaching, that teacher will leave at the end of this year - who will replace him? My kids might as well be facing vectors alone because the school cannot recruit good science teachers!

I would say that a double award candidate does start at a considerable disadvantage to a triple award candidate and should try to mitigate this as early as possible.

In a school which does have triple award candidates starting A-level, i would agree. But in a school which ONLY does double award, but offers A-level sciences, then the school will teach so as to make up the gap - as i said, when i looked at the profile of A-level results for schools in both 'camps' the A-level results were (to my surprise, as I was looking for evidence to use in an argument to encourage the school to offer triple) pretty much indistinguishable, allowing for normal variation from year to year.

Equally, again to my surprise, my old Oxbridge college said that they had a pretty equal split in their current science / medicine undergraduates between triple and double scientists at GCSE, and that they treated double from a double awarding school as exactly the same as triple from a triple-offering school for admissions purposes.

I just think if you struggle with learning GCSE Triple content by yourself then I would be seriously concerned about your ability to do Physics A level, it's really bloody hard.

Blanket,

I didn;'t say that. I am just thinking of the able scientists from DS's school who will go on to study 3 sciences at A-level from the basis of Double GCSE (all that is offered).

They won't have to do anything 'by themselves', because the school will teach it, from the starting point of where they have got to, as part of the A-level course. Yes, that means more content to cover in the 2 years, but whether they COULD learn it by themselves or not is not the issue - they will learn it as part of class and independent study, as is the case in every other A-level subject.

cant I was referring more to a dc who did combined and then decided to A levels at a school which accepted both triple and combined as ours does.

Yes - as I said much earlier, those are the children who are disadvantaged and have to 'catch up' at the beginning of sixth form (though as a PP said, many do so successfully and can't be distinguished from triple takes by the end of the course).

OP's school - and my DC's - are / will be 'double only' schools, and, if they offer A-levels, will simply teach from a different starting point.

I am a science teacher and can confirm that the vast majority of pupils are much better off doing double.

Two very good GCSEs are much more valuable than three mediocre or goodish ones. Only if the child is sure to be getting top grades (with the extra work and content required at triple) is it worth doing triple.

To be honest, it's actually a good thing that your school isn't pushing everyone to do triple as some schools do (because higher numbers of mediocre grades, rather than a few good grades, can look better on some league tables).

For what it's worth, I did double not so long ago (my school did offer triple, but I wanted to do something else with my free option), and I then went on to do a PhD and work in a lab before moving into teaching.

Triple is great when offered as an option just like other option blocks, but certainly not something to be getting worried about

This sounds a sensible move from the school IF they are currently teaching double and triple in the same option block/timetable space.

Due to all the new content there is less time to teach so it's better to get all the content of double than 90% of the content of triple.

With the new attainment 8 I think more schools will be doing this.

In the school my DC goes to, they all start triple single sciences. After a year, a few reduce down to double if they are struggling. However, they don't choose another option too.

It is a selective school and single sciences is highly valued by the parents and the school teaches from a starting point of having done the single ones when they do A Level. Those who have dropped down to double can still choose A Level sciences if they meet the A grade minimum requirement and are willing to do a bit of extra work over the summer. Most of them doing double will get an A and some A* but in reality few will choose it, because they sound it hard or didn't really enjoy it, which is why they dropped down to double.

A few kids join the 6th Form. They too would be expected to do extra work over the summer if they were starting from the point of double rather than triple. It is simply the understood route in and recognises the schools they came from might not have had everyone doing triple, although most places seem to offer it to their more able students now. And I think the reality actually is that in some schools doing Triple (especially if they do 3 year GCSE) they go well beyond the GCSE anyway.

And I think the reality actually is that in some schools doing Triple (especially if they do 3 year GCSE) they go well beyond the GCSE anyway. At our school the kids are being told that if they want to get 8's and 9's they need to read around their subjects, they need to do more than they are being taught.....maybe that's a school cop out but they are most definitely encouraging the kids to seek out knowledge, explore, investigate, stay up to date. Much in the same way we were expect to do at University...it's not a bad thing to encourage the dcs to take ownership.

AQA combined science:trilogy does have scalers and vectors on the Physics syllabus.

Wow so many messages! I have also spoken to a couple of the 6th forms and they've confirmed what many of you have said. That the content of the old AS levels has now dropped down to the combined/double and that there is little to be gained by doing the triple. The students coming in with double compared to triple do not struggle at all.
In fact it's starting to feel like the school have done a very smart thing here in only offering the combined, and hopefully will give her time to do something else or just have a bit less stress.
Thank you all so much! xx

My gdds school only offers triple to top 64 of cohort. They can choose not to do it. The reason the school does this is because the triple sciences are fast-tracked. They are taught 3 GCSEs in the teaching time if 2. We got a letter saying if picked for triple extra curricular activities would have to be cut down to minimum in order to cope with tremendous workload, I.e homework...masses of it! No coursework on new GCSEs and really harder than previous sciences. Also they will take double or triple with a level 6 grade for A levels but prefer them to have a 7 or above. Same with maths. The A levels are also a lot harder than previous.

Meant to have said gdd doing triple with predicted grades of 8/9. She has to do independent research though to get these grades. She is in year 10.

Sostenueto does your gdd attend state school?

She goes to catholic high school. Only one in our diocese. She travels by train each day over 30 miles each way. 6 primaries feed into it from across 2 counties. Its massive 1500 pupils.