Girls in physics

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Looking for some thoughts on this to help make up my own mind.

If a school has 40 pupils choosing physics, including only eight girls, to be split into two classes, which is better?

Bearing in mind the huge push for girls to succeed in STEM related careers.

Two mixed classes, four girls in each, so everyone gets the same experience and all boys get used to girls studying and achieving in physics?

Or

One boys only class, and one with remaining boys and all the girls, giving the girls a sizeable minority and some safety in numbers.

Pupils are 13/14, not in England, in case that's relevant.

It never crossed my mind when I chose physics GCSE, 30 years ago about the boy/girl split....I thought boys and girls mixed more freely now that they did then?

Two mixed classes would be my way of doing it.

I chose physics A level over 30 years ago when at an all girls school. Really enjoyed the course, never thought about being female when I chose it. when I started my degree, what A levels you had was a good ice breaker amongst Freshers. I was told several times that I couldn't have an A level in physics because I was a girl - I was stunned.
I sincerely hope that things have improved over the last 30 years.

I would keep the girls together - strength in numbers.

What's best is for the teachers to be very alert to their own unconcscious bias, and to bias in others, in order to create a safe space to learn and to challenge gender role stereotypes.

If the teacher believes subconsciously that girls are worse at STEM subjects it doesn't matter how many girls are in each class.

It couldn't possibly be a class of 32 and one of 8. If I was one of the boy's parents I would be less than impressed. I would have thought they should be streamed according to ability. I do understand the need to encourage girls in Stem subjects but that shouldn't be to the detriment of the boys.

Sorry if my post wasn't clear, no suggestion of 32 in a class! 20 in each class, so the second alternative would be 20 boys in one, and 12 boys/8 girls in the other.

Whoops name change fail!

DD was one of a very small (about 4) number of girls in a top science set. It was fine. The girls supported each other. One or two boys tried to dominate, but they would probably have done this whether in an all boy or mixed class. The girls just thought they were annoying. Assuming the girls are of the same ability as the boys, a teacher who both keeps an eye out for any boys who try to dominate their attention and who clamps down on any hint of sexism, and girls who are reasonably confident, I would split them into two groups.

Why on earth would you separate them? That gives the impression that the girls need the extra help/support/attention, that somehow they can't cope with their superior male coutnerparts. For goodness sake, why do their genitals matter - thats really what you're asking. Treat them all like physics pupils. Divide them by ability, age, surname, whatever, and sure try and avoid having 7 girls in one class and one in the other, but come on. Strength in numbers? Why do they need to be together to be strong? Why does strength matter? Can the little dears not cope with the male intellect? Honestly, you must have such a terrible opinion of these girls the way you all talk. As someone who was at an all girls school for a decade and swiched to coed for my last two years, I was told all the same codswallop some of you have spouted! "girls should stick together" "boys learn differently and will be loud and difficult". Moved to a coed school, and look at me, I didn't wilt under the pressure! Found it much better to be around boys, because it was NORMAL. This gender segregation thing has really got to stop. Boys and girls are different, we can debate education till the cows come home but if the parents chose a coed school, then let the class be coed, and stop the pearl cluching.

Don't separate them.

Dd1's school tried doing separate boy/girl for maths sets for a year and both boys and girls were unanimous in saying they wanted to go back to mixed sets. It didn't work-especially for the girls, they found the girls in particular results dropped.

I was in sets that were heavily male dominated (1 of 2 girls in my A-level physics for example) and I never found it an issue.

There was only three in my year when we took Physics GCSE. The challenge was the desks / experiments etc were all set up for two. In hindsight the teacher should've mixed it up every time but what happened is one girl had to go with a boy each time. Neither were happy despite the fact in my class the three girls were pretty much top of the class. If the boys had any nouse at the time they would have fought to go with the girls but they didn't. Instead they spent the class laughing at our developing busts. Thank goodness things have changed.

Mixed. I'm a physicist btw

I was the only girl in my A level physics class, it was fine. There was another class but I think the class you were allocated to was for timetabling reasons and I've no idea if there were any girls in it or not.

I was one of three girls in my physics class, wasn't bothered about it.

I was one of 4 girls at GCSE and 2 at A level (in classes of 25). It didn't bother me but the unconscious bias of some of the teachers did.

Safety????

Why would you question their safety?

I'd put the 8 girls in one class with 12 boys and then have an all boys class. It won't make a difference to the boys, but it will make a difference to the girls not to be in a heavily male dominated class. Their class will still be male dominated though.

The people going 'I was the only girl doing physics and it never bothered me' obviously never stopped to wonder where all the other girls were and why.

It does make a difference.

I'd say 2 mixed classes, if there would be less than 4 girls in each class then I would chose to have them altogether but in this scenario it seems it could work well.

My daughter has gone up to 4th year this week, she is the only girl in her physics class with 20 pupils. Dd has already felt that she has been singled out, the teacher asked her the majority of questions and she felt everyone was staring at her and it sounded like she got herself in a bit of a panic tbh!
I think 2 or 3 other girls in the class would make the world of difference to dd.

But another 7 girls would make an even bigger difference.

I don't think they would make anymore of a difference than 4 would to be honest.
I agree with co-ed classes, as I feel there are benefits to both sexes. I don't think it's fair to say that there would be no difference to the boys by having an all male class.
Perhaps them even being aware at such a young age just how capable girls can be could change attitudes in the future.
I don't think you can really 100% know how it will turn out, but by keeping it fair you are giving everyone an equal advantage.

I don't think they would make anymore of a difference than 4 would to be honest.

Having taught heavily male-dominated classes, it really does make a difference to have a more even split. Why put all the girls in a heavily male dominated class when you could put them in a more equal one?

Thanks for everyone's comments. Much appreciated.

I can assure you that no pearls are being clutched! They're still very young and we're wanting to support these girls as best we can to maintain their enthusiasm for physics. Seems like the general consensus is that two groups of four is the way to go.

I assume the safety is numbers is an expression of speech, no girls will be harmed in the formation of the physics classes!

I actually said strength in numbers referring to the type of scenario that noble obviously has experience of. I don't know how people interpreted that as referring to anything relating to the safety of girls

Seems like the general consensus is that two groups of four is the way to go.

But no one has really explained why it's better for the girls to be in a small minority. It really isn't. You are reinforcing, by the make-up of the class, that they are not the norm. They will be talked over and sidelined, because research shows that boys dominate the talking in the classroom. This is totally unnecessary when you can put them in an even split class!

Should probably mention that I've done a lot of work on increasing girls' participation in maths and physics faces even worse issues.

Girls drop out of taking these subjects at every stage, and confidence is a huge issue. Everything you can do to make them feel comfortable in the classroom and not like they don't belong there is important.