Girls in physics

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Looking for some thoughts on this to help make up my own mind.

If a school has 40 pupils choosing physics, including only eight girls, to be split into two classes, which is better?

Bearing in mind the huge push for girls to succeed in STEM related careers.

Two mixed classes, four girls in each, so everyone gets the same experience and all boys get used to girls studying and achieving in physics?

Or

One boys only class, and one with remaining boys and all the girls, giving the girls a sizeable minority and some safety in numbers.

Pupils are 13/14, not in England, in case that's relevant.

all 8 together
8 girls and 12 boys

is better for the girls than 4 girls and 16 boys.

Defo put all 8 girls together. Otherwise the boys will dominate all the equipment, teachers time etc.

I say this as the parent of a girl who has just finished three science AH.

Another one who thinks keep all 8 girls together in a class w 12 boys. I don't see any advantage to them of being split.

I'd go for 8 girls together....

Clearly it makes a difference....

I sent DD to coed school and checked proportion of girls doing physics at single sex schools and coed schools... I was shocked by the much higher percentage doing physics in single sex schools... dramatically different ... cant remember excctly but over 60% more.... so don't think we should be blind to it... and hopeless attitude of those who did physics and feel their experience is relevant to all girls - So agree with posters - Stop and think - why are far more girls doing physics in single sex schools? Hugely relevant.... and concerning...

Will they be 2 classes of equal ability?
I would look more at the academic split rather than male/female tbh

Dd1 is doing physics a level and is one of 7 girls in her year doing so. She's in a class with 2 other girls, the other 4 are in the other class. So her school went for the 2 smaller sets of girls. Dd is looking forward to having more girls in her class next year as they are merging the classes for y13 (due to one of the teachers leaving and not being able to find a replacement), but not too having a much bigger class.

I agree with noble that the girls will be more comfortable in a class that's more evenly split. Being in such a tiny minority is not much fun. I did it in my degree where I was one of 4 young women doing computing with 200 (ish) young men. It was hard!

At least they are being allowed to do physics- the head of department at my secondary school (in 1974) would only take girls to do "A" levels if they got a grade A at O level. Boys were welcome with a C ....he explained this (in class ) that he would only take "exceptional" girls as they were not suited, biologically and mentally, to study science.

Wow, averylongtimeago

It's easy to forget how far we've come in such a short time in terms of equality.

Yes, and one reason why my blood boils when someone says "oh I'm not a feminist"!

I went to a girls school, and it never even entered our heads that girls were supposed to be bad at physics. We had 20 of us doing physics a level, in a school that was about half the size of dd's school (so around the same number of girls, but no boys). Where dd's school get fewer than 10 girls each year (the school I teach at gets more girls than dd's school, but fewer than my old school). I don't quite know how to change the perception that girls shouldn't choose sciences, but I do know we should be doing something.

Maths has less of a problem than physics but I am aware it is an issue nationally, even if it isn't an issue at my current school. We are a bit of an anomaly in that we often get more girls than boys doing maths a level, but it's always pretty evenly split. I would never be able to put my finger on what it is that we do that doesn't happen nationally.

I also went to a girls school. At A level 4 did physics, 7 biology, 8 chemistry and 4 maths. Compared to, say, 22 English and 16 history. The teaching was great but the view that "girls dont do maths/science was so entrenched in society. I hope things are different today.

I asked feminist 15yo DD the question.
She sees it as bad for the lads to not all see the girls excelling, but...
Verdict
"No one likes to be separated from their friends. So put the girls together so they are more likely to have support of their friends, and the boys will have girls in their other classes anyway."

Same logic if 32girls + 8boys wanted to do childcare GCSE; keep the lads together so they have their mates.

I don't remember fewer girls taking Maths, Physics or Chemistry A level - I think it was 50:50, the girls at my school (30 years ago) scored much higher than the boys, girls were always the standout AAA students.

Figures for girls doing Physics A-level are dire.

Definitely all the girls together. My DD2 is at university doing a very male dominated course and unfortunately does not have any other females in her tutorials, workshops or labs.

I don't know what to think. In UK state schools the students do double or triple science and study all three subjects. They can't do just chemistry and biology. They have to do physics as well. DD didn't like physics. She didn't "get" it. She said it was too theoretical. She is doing chemistry and biology at A level and is finding the subjects enjoyable if challenging.

I think there are only a handful of girls doing physics at A level at her school though.

i was at an all girls secondary
we didn't even have a physics teacher
just a stream of random teachers telling us about space and how to make a pin hole camera.

needless to say there was no A level physics class

Iamastonished you're talking about GCSE re double / all 3 sciences

This is a school where a disproportionate number of girls have been put off doing physics even before taking GCSE. It has more problems than how it is going to split up the few who have chosen physics.

That this happens in most mixed schools does not make it OK.

Yes, but all the students take all three sciences from year 7 anyway.

I don't know what to think - and I was the only girl taking A level physics in a class of 30, in 2002, in a private school. I had a great experience, though mainly down to the teachers taking a disproportionate care to include me and coach me. The boys did club together a bit, and just one other girl would have been lovely! But I enjoyed the subject and have no bad memories.

A bit of me thinks that boys should be shown that girls do physics too. What message does it send for girls to be herded together in one class? I think 4 in each.

I'd say go with all 8 together.

There's a reason why the uptake of physics in girls has always been higher in single sex schools.

As noble says the boys won't be affected by being in a single sex class of 30. But it will be better for the girls to be in a class where they make up almost half rather than an small cohort of 4 hugely outnumbered by boys.

How to you usually split the classes in subjects other than physics?

Nobel, has physics A level improved? DDs experience (she took the A level a year ago) was that the AS year was dull but A2 far more interesting. But by that point she, like others, had decided on their University subjects.