girls school vs mixed (state)

[tw11]

Hi, we seem to have a choice between comprehensive mixed and girls school. Academic results of girls at these 2 schools are comparable - both are very good schools. Reputation-wise the girls school seems to get more praise... I'm a bit biased against single sex schools - but my DD seems to be very open to the idea, and has a slight preference for the single sex one, although that's only because one of her best friends will definitely go there.

What school would you choose and why - trying to put pros and cons on paper for both schools. We need to decide the order in which to list these schools on the application form.

Many thanks.

"a big con for me is that we educate our children to believe that they can achieve whatever they want to regardless of their sex,"

That for me is the big downside of dd's mixed comp. She has (yr 10) to deal day in day out with boys making sexist comments, teachers who don't have the time /energy to combat these successfully, situations in which choosing a certain subject (eg CDT) becomes a 'political' choice in that so few girls take it, etc etc.

I went to a girls school and there was none of that - all the pupils in the physics A level class were girls for example, because there were no boys!

Talkin - Hayesfield in Bath, Millais in Horsham. Both girls' non-faith comps outside London. I'm sure there are more!

I am a single mother too and let my only child DD choose a single sex school, although a part of me would have preferred co ed. She was very happy there, and although most of her friends were girls she did socialise with boys too. Now in her first year at University she has a lot more male friends. If both schools are equally good I would let your DD have the final say.

I just don't think it reflects real life and I remember the cliques which, even though at the time I was part of, make me cringe now.

See, my single sex school was not like that at all. There was a wide variety of girls from different backgrounds, different faiths, different family situations. Definitely not cliquey or difficult to find friends. And I was not a "cool" kid. It wasn't a jolly hockey sticks type of place. Just goes to show that schools are all different I guess.

I definitely don't remember any love and romance classes

Have you and DD visited both schools yet on their open days? Which school made you feel more welcome? Which school did the teachers engage with you both better? Which school did you prefer for other reasons? How do the curriculums and GCSE/A level options compare? What sports options do each offer? What arts/drama/music/tech options do they have?

There's so much more to consider than dwelling on the same sex/single sex issue. If you and your daughter aren't bothered whether it's mixed or not, then concentrate on the other issues.

My son attends a single sex school. He loves it and hasn't regretted it for a single minute. There's no such thing as mixed=good, single sex=bad. Everyone has their opinions and experiences, but that's all they are, there is no definite answer one way or another because every school is different, every personal experience is different. Some people went to single sex and hated it, others went to single sex and loved it. Personally, I went to a mixed school and it didn't do me any favours at all. I didn't engage with the opposite sex at all, barely spoke to anyone of the opposite sex, so it's not always the case that mixed sex schools make you better at working with the opposite sex and not treating them as aliens - in fact, it wasn't until I started work that barriers were broken down and I was in my early twenties before I even so much as held hands with someone of the opposite sex. All I remember from my experiences is all the boys playing around trying to impress the girls and all the girls flicking their hair to get the boys' attention. That's my experience - others will say the opposite!

I went to both single-sex and mixed. If you fell out with girls at the single sex you went and found new ones, everyone was included at some level. At the mixed school, if you weren't deemed "hot" by the boys it was like you didn't exist or weren't worth anything. And the girls took their cue from the boys. I know which was better for my self-esteem! Obviously that's just my own experiences though.

Unconscious bias is very strong in schools (and everywhere!). The research shows that in mixed classes, teachers spend approximately 70% of the time interacting with the boys. In STEM classes, teachers are less likely to ask girls questions and when they do they ask shallower questions and are much more likely to jump in quickly to help. Girls are more likely to study STEM subjects in all-girls schools, which is generally supposed to be because there is less unconscious conditioning about what sort of subjects girls should studying / are likely to be good at / will be teased for liking. Dealing with puberty without the sexualising male glare can be much easier.

These are the reasons I would prefer single sex for my DD. I'd prefer to live in a world without gender bias and then I'd send her co-ed. But in the world we do live in, I think single sex is better. I also think the cliqueness of girls is a bit of a myth. This can happen to any child in any school - I don't believe that an all girls environment makes that worse (I haven't seen research to back either side of that argument up though).

Great post issmum. I have a lot to think about when choosing what school to send my DD to. Mind you she's only 1.5 yrs old.

Several families I know have turned down places at private schools for the girls' school - so yes, it does have a very good reputation. Not sure which of the mixed schools you are looking at but both have more boys on the roll than girls? One school nearby has nearly 30% more boys attending, the other 15% - that would put me off if I had a girl (2 boys in this house).

Far more issues present in single sex girls' schools than in co-ed. Presumably there's a reason for this.

I might conceivably have sent my boys to a single sex school but absolutely not my girls. As it was (four girls four boys) they all went to the local co-ed school and the girls have had no problems with gender issues/ subjects/ aspirations at all.

My preference is absolutely for all girls. My DD is going into Yr 7 in Sept into an all girls. She does lots of sport outside of school where she can meet boys so mixing with both sexes isn't an issue. My DDs strongest subjects are Maths and Science and there is research that shows girls will do better in these subjects in a single sex environment. Girls tend to leave primary on par or even slightly more advanced than boys in Maths and yet far fewer girls than boys will go on to study at A level, this doesn't seem to be so much the case at single sex schools.
When I was doing the round of secondary visits I met with the head of one particular school who was rightly proud of his A level students who had qualified for a bursary should they go on to study STEM at Uni, when I asked him out of these 6 students who had recieved this national award how many were girls he told me none of them.

All girls 100%

I wish I had this option.

Maybe it varies between state and independent because my boys are at a co-ed independent senior school where just as many girls as boys opt for stem subjects. They make great mention if this in their literature. They also offer three 6th form bursaries a year to girls from state schools who want to take stem subject alevels.

Having moved continents my 2 DC aged 6 and 12 moved from a mixed school to a girls school. I was not keen on principle but it has been a revelation.

Stereotypically male subjects have been embraced, competitive sport adopted for the first time ever and my DDs are absolutely thriving.

"Unconscious bias is very strong in schools (and everywhere!). The research shows that in mixed classes, teachers spend approximately 70% of the time interacting with the boys."

Unfortunately, this.

Tumble my DC have all been to the same state school and girls take STEM subjects as easily as arts or humanities. There's no divide.

This iSTEM thing is probably more to do with crap school/ good school than with single sex or mixed.

Those of you citing evidence for girls doing better. Does it relate only to state schools? There are some state non faith based all girls (the ones I know are in Kent and Herts) but I don't think they're common. So presumably the girls schools many on here are referring too are private. I think in many private co-ed environments the Stem subjects are geared towards encouraging girls I guess because they assume the boys will naturally flock towards them anyway. It is avademically selective anyway so they start Y7 in the full knowledge that they're all bright and capable and I assume, motivated. Certainly it would never occur to my boys that maths was somehow a boys' subject.

I did lots of research on this topic and the statistics are across state and independent sectors, with there being something that happens to girls from leaving primary to the point of taking GCSE that they CAN (and I am sure there are many exceptions) become disengaged in Maths, Physics and Chemistry specifically. Conversely from what I have read (and most of the reasearch was a few years old so I do apologise if others have read more up to date conflicting research) is that boys tend to do better in a co Ed environment.

Outside London, all girls schools are always one of the above.
Another exception to this is Penwortham girls (Preston)which isn't selective or faith (I think it was a gs way back).

My DD goes to a girls school which is a grammar, it has been absolutely great for her. She's doing maths, further maths and physics A levels, has an offer for Cambridge engineering... well, maybe she'd have done this anywhere (I did double maths, physics and chemistry at a coed, one other girl in double maths no others did physics, no others in my chemistry set... ) - but it has definitely suited her.

Conversely from what I have read (and most of the reasearch was a few years old so I do apologise if others have read more up to date conflicting research) is that boys tend to do better in a co Ed environment.

I've seen some recent studies which indicate that for boys the effect of single sex on academic achievement is neutral or somewhat positive, just not as marked a benefit as for girls.

I went to a girls school my dd is at a high achieving mixed sex school.
My school was far less bitchy. Boys seem to complicate things in many ways.

My single sex school was a non faith state school. Not in London or the Home Counties.

Another vote for girls school. For the reasons cited by pp about academic success, no subject being off-linits, etc. And critically, in a girls school your DD would not have to put up with a constant stream of sexist bullshit. This happened to a friends daughter and it got so bad that she transferred a couple of weeks ago to a girls school, where she is much happier.

Thanks all, there's a lot of food for thought here...

We have already visited the girls school, and we will go see the mixed one as well, but probably not before Sep/Oct. We do know the building/facilities in the mixed school, as DD goes there for holiday camps and I go for a gym class. I also know more children who go to the co-ed school, as it's our local comp walking distance...

Curriculum is more Math and Science oriented in the girls school, and wider options in the co-ed. My DD seems more drawn to arts and languages at the moment, but also loves animals - her favorite TV time is nature documentaries.

All in all it's not an easy decision because the girls school does have a better reputation than the co-ed one - but that's solely for academic results. (the co-ed results are v similar for girls though, boys averages being a bit lower).