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Secondary education

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Original poster

Martianbishop, teachers.....can I pick your brains please?

28 replies

Saggarmakersbottomknocker · 15/03/2007 10:58

Do you know anything about Gateway Science?

We went to dd's parent's evening last night and were informed that her class have been put in for their Science SAT a year early (would have been good to have been given more than a few weeks notice but there you go).

The 'plan' is for them to do Gateway(?) science in yr9, an Additional in yr10 and then possibly an AS in year 11. Does this sound feasible to you, too much to manage or even complete b*!!cks?

OP posts:
Blandmum · 15/03/2007 15:33

I do know of schools who do this. The place I work doesn't.

I have some reservations in simply accelerating kids through qualifications. I feel that there is more to education than this.....or at least there should be.

I would rather very able kids get a greater breadth of education and experience, rather than simply doing stuff early.

I also feel that many children will lack the emotional maturity and life skills to cope with Sixth form lessons (which tend to be more relaxed and driven by independent learning) when they are younger.

Just my view , you understand

Original poster
Saggarmakersbottomknocker · 15/03/2007 16:41

It's my view too MB. They are also doing GCSE French in yr9.

I'm concerned for dd in that although she is capable, she has a lot of time off for ill health and that's not going to improve. Also although she's in the top stream for the core subjects, Science and Maths aren't really her thing, she's more English and Art orientated. I'm worried that she's been set up to fail. She would be unlkely to choose to do AS in a Science.

Aside from my personal reasons for dd alone, I do wonder how doing AS in year 11 sets the child up for college. We don't have a sixth form so presumably anyone wanting to go on and do the full A-level will face doing the second year with older students and there'll be timetabling problems then for the colleges.

  • not sure that this has been thought through properly.

I've been looking at the OCR website - are they the only ones doing Gateway?

OP posts:
Blandmum · 15/03/2007 16:43

we don't do OCR until AS level. We do Edexcel 360 for GCSE and OCR for AS/A2

snuffy143 · 15/03/2007 17:36

I am a Science teacher and am really surprised by this. The jump from GCSE to AS is huge and in my experience, only suitable for the appropriate age group i.e. 16+ and when they have chosen to do it. I think it is even more so now that the Science GCSE has become more morality/ethics/discussion focused. I would not want to teach AS (what subject are they planiing on doing in Y11?) to any kids who have not chosen it.

Blandmum · 15/03/2007 17:38

Totally agree with you snuffy (i'm a science teacher too). the kids find it a big enough jump at 16!

Marina · 15/03/2007 17:43

ds adores his common cold microbe Sneezy thanks mb and it is the talk of year three
Dd wants the cute pink spiral syphilis...

beckybrastraps · 15/03/2007 17:52

Accelerating is a lazy way of dealing with bright children IMO. If there is a whole class of able scientists, then the possibilities are rather exciting for their teacher I would have thought.

I also wonder why a school without a sixth form is wanting to teach AS. Would it be in all three sciences? I don't know about Gateway though.

Blandmum · 15/03/2007 17:57

I would also mildly worry about teachers with no experience of teaching AS doing so, with no-one having much experience IYSWIM. So, when I started teaching AS, there were lots of other teacher who had done it before and could help me IYSWIM!

beckybrastraps · 15/03/2007 17:59

I wonder if they just fancy a crack at AS level teaching.

I am a cynic...

beckybrastraps · 15/03/2007 18:01

Of course, they may have loads of experience. I have taught A level, but where I live now, it's mostly 11-16 and 6th form colleges. So I will have to choose if I went back. Which will be a right bugger.

Blandmum · 15/03/2007 18:03

YOu are , of course, quite right, they may have lots of experience.

I hope that they do, because there is a huge jump from GCSE science to A level Biology.

I have a degree in biochemistry, but I am a biologist at heart. I'd hate to have to get up to speed to teach AS chemistry!

beckybrastraps · 15/03/2007 18:05

Oh I agree. I know I could teach chemistry. God knows I had to learn quite a lot of ecology almost from scratch. But my heart wouldn't be in it. And that would be a bad thing.

Blandmum · 15/03/2007 18:07

You are my sister under the skin. I also had to learn all the ecology (which I loath! )

My fave bits are the neurobiology, and the genetics

beckybrastraps · 15/03/2007 18:12

God yes. Ecology

Fortunately, I have always been the token biochemist in departments full of tree huggers. So I got all the good stuff

Blandmum · 15/03/2007 18:14

farkin sand dunes ARRRRGGGGHHHH!

We have one tree hugger, and two biochemists. Much better! [grin}

BellaBear · 15/03/2007 18:14

Aren't SATs a measure of where kids are at at the end of year 9? Can they take them early? How does that affect league tables and so on? Sorry, maths teacher here, rather than science. Tell me off if I am all wrong.

beckybrastraps · 15/03/2007 18:17

Succession blah blah yawn

Anyway, back to the OP - I would ask some more questions about what the plans are.

beckybrastraps · 15/03/2007 18:17

Oh, good point BB!

Original poster
Saggarmakersbottomknocker · 15/03/2007 19:31

Agree - seems lazy.

Bella - lord knows about league tables.

I haven't even thought about the lack of experience/moral/ethical stuff. I do know that the jump from GCSE to AS is quite big. Ds1 did Double Science then failed AS Biology miserably.

They deffo haven't thought this through have they? Thanks for all your thoughts - I feel a phone call coming on. Just going to confirm my understanding of this 'plan' with dd's friend's dad who will probably have throughly grilled the Head of Science.

OP posts:
Original poster
Saggarmakersbottomknocker · 15/03/2007 19:35

Ah! Just had a thought - school have strong college links - many of the children go to a local college for vocational stuff. Wonder if they intend shipping them out.

Ds2 goes to one of the colleges referred to here on day release from school.

OP posts:
BellaBear · 15/03/2007 19:49

It's just that SATs aren't something you can take whenever, they are a measure of where pupils are when they are fourteen. So I can't why a school is allowed to enter students for them early.

(i'm not trying to be pernickety, I'm just curious!)

I totally agree with earlier posts abotu breadth rather than acceleration for able pupils as well.

confusedandignorant · 15/03/2007 21:42

there is also the EP stuff the year 9's could do which are open ended and cover the whole range of science (similar stuff available for maths and presumably english)

snuffy143 · 16/03/2007 09:41

All very interesting. Defo agree with the breadth thing e.g. EP. The more I think about it, the mosr amazed I am to think that they are going to try to teach AS to Y11 pupils - it has to be reserved for 16+ kids who have chosen to do it imo. It is damn hard. Just ask my current group! I'm a tree hugging succession loving Bio teacher by the way!

Original poster
Saggarmakersbottomknocker · 16/03/2007 11:06

Sorry what's EP? Extended something?

dd's friend's dad did grill the Head of Science (I knew he would )- seems that they will be allowed to choose whether they do the AS. But he said he had to drag that assurance from him. But where the AS students will study and who will teach them doesn't seem to have yet been decided. Nor did he have an answer on the issues for children who want to continue to the full A-level.

Thanks for all your help.

OP posts:
Hulababy · 16/03/2007 11:16

EP = education plan I think. (IEP - Individual education plan)