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Secondary education

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Original poster

Is Taking two languages to GCSE really too hard?!

67 replies

Desertdweller1 · 30/04/2017 08:49

DD (Y8) has to choose French, Spanish or both (though only certain pupils are permitted to do both, including DD) shortly for study in Y9 and ultimately GCSE.

We had always assumed she would do both as she has shown promise in languages and enjoyed them.

However, in advising pupils, the head of languages has said something we find very worrying. He has advised, in general, against pupils taking both as they have found 'dual linguists' at the school (who are usually the best linguists) do worse than those studying one language.

What on earth does this say to you about the languages department??

I did two languages, many people did. What is suddenly so hard about taking two side by side? There is talk of confusion between the two languages.

I am underwhelmed!

OP posts:

LooseAtTheSeams · 06/05/2017 06:25

Don't forget, though, that state educated dcs from the current year 7 onwards will have done much more grammar at primary school than the current year 11s - and they have a better knowledge of grammar than most had when I was at school! You can see the difference already in what's being taught in English. There's no problem in doing 2 language GCSEs if a child likes languages! It's great training for the brain in all sorts of ways.
I did 3 language O levels at school - German was harder for me than French or Latin but enough stuck somewhere in my brain for me to be able to get by in visits to Germany!

beafrog · 07/05/2017 23:24

I'm shocked that the Head of Languages would advise against pupils doing 2 languages. Surely their job should be to encourage children to love languages and want to learn more?

bojorojo · 08/05/2017 13:03

I think it is shocking too! Listening to Womens' Hour on Radio 4 earlier, they had an item where they interviewed Black girls at Oxford and Cambridge because they are running an outreach program to say to black students they can aspire to these universities. It turns out Cambridge recruited 15 black male students last year!

One young lady was doing French and Spanish. She was lucky her school could accomodate her doing two languages. How many other talented students miss out because their schools rule out two languages? It is appalling. So not only do we not care about the general population being limited in language acquisition, we cannot even educate bright young women to do languages at many comprehensives and send them to the best universities. It is not good enough. (I think this young lady had to move to grammar school to do the languages).

EBearhug · 08/05/2017 13:14

It was fine when I was at school - in fact, I'd say they complemented each other well, and I learnt aspects of grammar and vocabulary more quickly because of seeing it done differently and similarly in more than one language.

It's only since reaching middle age I've had a struggle with language interference. I answered in French during my Welsh class last week, and had no idea till it was pointed out. But that wasn't an issue till I was about 40.

randomsabreuse · 08/05/2017 13:24

I was fine with French, German and Latin, GCSE, only started hitting some confusion with adding in Russian in 6th form - it felt like I had English, French and "Other" files in my speaking head. However I had dropped German and kept up French due to timetable constraints and Russian was ab initio 2 lessons a week with much more limited grammar teaching.

Obviously French and German are very different languages and perhaps Russian was more like German but the exam techniques would be the same in both and grammar, listening skills and comprehension should be compatible too.

GU24Mum · 09/05/2017 11:02

I agree with bojorojo - for some reason sciences are now considered sacrosanct so take up quite a chunk of the "options" available. Yes, they're important but so are languages and your view on them depends really on what you want to do and what you're good at. I did 'O' levels (and did 3 languages) and we did fine without CAs (whatever these are!). Not sure I agree with the comment about grammar teaching being better now unless it was shocking before. When I try and go through some grammar with my DD in French, her knowledge of what I think of as fairly basic grammatic concepts seems completely alient to her - or perhaps I'm just an old dinosaur who likes languages!

GU24Mum · 09/05/2017 11:02

grr - grammatical not grammatic....

toffee1000 · 09/05/2017 16:41

My German teacher was very big on grammar. It probably depends at least partly on the teacher. Even so, in my first year of university we had weekly grammar lectures, presumably to make sure we were all at the same level by the end of the year.

Peanutbutterrules · 09/05/2017 16:52

Two languages an option at DD school. However, maybe they have a lot doing what DD did today...answer German language test in Spanish!

Sigh

I thought languages was suppose to be supported these days so I think it's surprising.

blametheparents · 13/05/2017 09:27

At my DS's state grammar school two languages are compulsory until GCSE.

badmgr · 13/05/2017 09:49

I haven't RTFT so applogies if you've already decided.. I'd decide against it. I was one of very few who were allowed to do 2 languages - ALL of us, in exam, got them mixed up so spoke in a French and Spanish combo!! Came out with a C but if I'd stuck with one, likely would have been the A that I was predicted.

MilkRunningOutAgain · 13/05/2017 12:19

My DS finds languages easy. He finds science hard. Kids vary, I'd suggest taking subjects your DD is good at! I do find the teacher's comment concerning, at DS's school the kids are encouraged to do languages and can take up to 4 ( though 2 of these are twilight courses ). Perhaps speak to the teacher? DS's school is non-selective state school.

dauntlesscrusader · 13/05/2017 15:05

A lot depends on which languages your DC is considering. DD1 is an excellent linguist but was advised not to combine Spanish with Italian because they are too close at the same time as also clashing (a word may be almost identical in both languages but be masculine in one and feminine in the other).

Other combinations are fine. There aren't the same issues between French and Spanish, and certainly not between French and German. Latin is useful for German, as well as the latin language.

Fink · 13/05/2017 15:19

What utter nonsense from the HoD! As pp have said, the more languages you know, the easier it is to learn others. This is objectively true even when the languages themselves are not closely related, because the brain gets used to the idea of variations in how a language might be structured. It is even more obviously true in the case of two romance languages where there are so many similarities between them.

There will be a stage when pupils regularly get vocabulary confused, which becomes less and less common as they get more proficient. By GCSE it shouldn't be an issue except for the odd slip.

Not to say your dd has to do two languages, but if that's what she and you want then go for it. I would not be impressed by the HoD but maybe the rest of the department are better!

corythatwas · 13/05/2017 19:37

I did English (foreign language), French, Spanish, Classical Greek and Latin; on a short trip to the UK as a teenager I added an O-level in German. Never got them confused, and got top marks in all six.

If you are good at languages, learning more makes it easier. Yes, there is a small risk of momentary confusion between Spanish and Italian, which perhaps is an argument against taking both of them as GCSE's (but definitely not against learning them). Other than that, really can't see the issue.

If you can confuse Spanish and French in an oral, your pronunciation must be seriously bad.

JanetBrown2015 · 13/05/2017 20:06

I did French and German (and then German A level ) and got very good marks, best in the school in A level actually. I think the brighter people are those who cope with languages and they are very useful in later life.

I think some state schools are not getting enough chdlren to do languages these days and that's a pity. At my sons' school you can do 3 languages at GCSE and some do extra in their own native tongue too if they are from abroad.

pointythings · 13/05/2017 20:37

I did English as a foreign language in Holland (but that doesn't really count because I was already bilingual at the time) as well as French and German to the equivalent of A-level. If you are a linguist it really isn't a problem. We learned grammar in our native Dutch and yes, we were expected to study it in our other languages too. Lots of vocabulary to learn as well. But mixing our languages up? Nope, didn't happen. DD2 is doing the new French GCSE and she has been ridiculously thoroughly drilled in English grammar, so far she is not finding it a problem at all. She did drop Spanish but that was because she wanted to do History instead.

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