When parents are slagging off the local comp...

[Everyoneafter3]

I've posted before about my concerns over the local secondary, which, thanks to comments on this board and an excellent recent Ofsted, are very much allayed. I had a very good read of school newsletters etc and am much happier. Dd1 (Y4) is musically gifted and will also audition for a specialist music school.

The area in which we live is very affluent: many children round here go to fee-paying independent schools. These dc are going to school and telling my dd (and others) that the local secondary is rubbish ("my mum and dad say..."). One particularly stupid parent has said at home that "no child of mind will set foot in x school" which of course is coming back home with our dd.

Dd1 has now got it into her head that the local school is terrible, that she's really upset to go to not a good school, that she wishes we weren't poor (we're not! But no, we can't afford independent school fees without having to sacrifice other stuff we prioritise as a family). She's been researching exam results and all sorts.

For our part we've said well look at any local school she'd like to, although as we live across the road from the school in question it'd be unlikely that she'd get in.

I'm heartily sick of parents telling their dc how awful the local school is. It's simply not fair. My dc won't receive a 'lesser' education. They aren't going to a 'rubbish' school. If this continues I'm tempted to speak to their current primary school tbh. What else can I do? I've told dd to not listen, we've looked at the school website, talked about results (!) but I'm at a loss.

It's a cross post , but I will say again , only from one experience from one DC this simply is not true. There are many other reason that you can talk about better funded schools' alumni doing better but I truly do not believe this is one

" When certain schools have excellent connections to certain colleges, their pupils get a leg up in the interview and selection process. It's really that simple. "

I've been to a private school, I'm telling you that there were explicit legs up at both my school, and the schools my friends went to (yes, Westminster). Things like the teachers ringing up their friends in the college to ask how things went, the explicit knowledge that this college always offered at least an interview & pften an offer to the girls that applied etc. etc.

Perhaps the school your DC goes to doesn't have such explicit links, but they definitely existed at SHHS in 2006/2007, and at Westminster, and at UCS and at NLCS, and at Highate school.

Well, 2 years ago Ds's school did not do this. The links are ancient but not traded on nowadays, and not for a long time. Of course pupils ex / pupils can phone each other, but other than that no. No teacher would phone an Oxbridge tutor to ask. It is more than the school's reputation is worth IMHO.

I'm living in Ireland and I think the system maybe different . Not saying it's better by any means. It's points based to get onto college so the school you go to does influence your admittance AFAIK! . However, because it's points driven there is fierce pressure on kids and those who can afford extra tuition/ grinds obviously do better.
My ds isn't academic (.starting secondary school in Sept) . He has aspergers , so struggles. However, I feel there will be options for him. He may not go to uni, (he might surprise and go,) but if he doesn't there are options like apprenticeships are making a come back and there are other routes like vocational colleges. There's a lot more to success than academia and I'm so glad my boy is social and learning life skills and communication skills that'll help him lead an independent, productive, happy life !
Life is tough enough for kids without this added pressure for points etc, I will, by all mens encourage my boy in school and I hope he meets his potential and that life will be good to him along the way.

☆doesn't influebe

☆doesnt influence!

Yes SHHS' reputation was permanently damaged by so many girls getting into Oxbridge thanks to school links to colleges...

Hmm.

Purely anecdotal this, but two different sets of friends have daughters who ended up on the same course at Durham. Daughter 1 went to a comp in a northern city. She got a conditional offer of AAA (I think, or it might have been AAA), achieved the grades and was accepted. Daughter 2 attended a top private school. She wanted to go to Kings but her grades were way off (she got BCD). Her house tutor told her he thought he could get her into either the LSE or Durham and was happy to ring his contacts there to put in a word for her. She opted for Durham and with no interview got a place on the same course as the other girl who achieved AAA. Daughter 2 is lovely, hugely bright and I'm sure flunked her A-levels due to stress, etc, but still..

I realise how naive I am when I read these threads. There was a poster a while ago who encouraged her dc to apply for a summer school which was set up to increase accessibility for disadvantaged children. Her dc didn't meet any of the criteria bit she saw nothing wrong with applying. My DP is chronically disabled but my ds would never class any of the help he's given DP or myself as being a 'carer'. Despite years of seeing his dad suffer serious illness, countless hospital stays and at one point, a room in our house being turned into essentially a hospital ward where a community critical care team treated DP every day for months, I know none of this will appear on DS' PS. It would also be the easiest thing in the world for him to give his GP's address in his application because it is in a 'flagged' socio-economically deprived area. There is no way he would do that although I am in little doubt many people wouldn't think twice about it, in order to given themselves a better chance.

Her house tutor told her he thought he could get her into either the LSE or Durham and was happy to ring his contacts there to put in a word for her

I cannot argue with someone else's experience. All I can say is that if you put the actual school & teachers aside, and what that gives you ( and I do realise that is a massive if) my point is I do not believe there is any longer a back handed handshake / old school tie into the better known universities. I just don't. That said , I am not saying there isn't any inequality , I am just saying , don't chase after shadows.

Cowgirls I wish your Ds well, however it works out for him.

Basilisk - lots of people here are telling you it does exist.

You can't address the problem if you don't admit it exists first.

Thanks Basilisk He also has a specific learning difficulty so that's another obstacle to overcome!

In which case I defer.

DS has never come across it ( v small example obviously) . I hope others' DCs will not be put off applying to a university because they think there is a "club" they are not part of.

Take your point , and that's all

Gosh, I wish when I was at NLCS applying to Oxbridge many years ago any of my teachers had told me and my friends about those college links. Then we wouldn't just have chosen our colleges by ourselves or because we liked the ducks.

Basilisk - lots of people here are telling you it does exist.

And lots of people who actually work in admissions saying that you are talking rubbish.

The schools may not be comparable to Westminster but I absolutely refuse to accept that the boys at Westminster are all significantly brighter than children in northern schools.

Well of course they're not but where will you find such a concentrated bunch of them up north?

There's another thing that schools like W are good at identifying, which will be lost in the data - intellectual curiosity. They do quite well at picking the quirky, oddball eccentrics that will go on to do very well at Oxbridge interviews.

And, as has been mentioned above, you can't discount the effect of selective sixth-form entry. The girls W selects, as elite as the boys might be at 13, are an extraordinary cut above.

Well of course they're not but where will you find such a concentrated bunch of them up north?

Manchester Grammar? They have a good track record for Oxbridge but I am guessing it won't be anywhere close to Westminster.

Alyosha the top independent schools do some things very well, probably due to a combination of the type of pupils and type of teachers they attract. They foster higher level independent study and thinking skills and provide a university type experience at school for those who are ready for it and can take advantage (not all pupils will at those schools). That is not the same thing as helping students achieving high exam marks, indeed it may not result in any difference in A level exam grades.
IME links with colleges have nothing to do with admissions apart from schools warning off all but the exceptional students for choosing to apply to the historically linked college in order to safeguard their reputation.

My eldest chose her Oxford college because the boys she saw at the Open Day were hot. And my 2nd chose his because he liked the main hall as it looked like Hogwarts. And my 3rd made the sensible decision to chose his college by proximity to the best pub. All state educated but got help from school to apply and write PS. To OP, the best, most satisfying revenge on parents who constantly talk down your kids comp is results day😁. The knowledge that my little darlings had had 13 years of free education and got better results than the students who had told mine they were pond scum for being state educated was a little bit enjoyable. To me - kids couldn't care less.
Just a quick thing though. My next DD attended a Medics day at Eton last year and met a couple of private school kids who were very lovely and had never met a comp kid before. One v sweet girls said DD was a bit of a surprise and they have stayed in contact since.
Teenagers frankly don't care. It's sometimes the parents who find these things important.

All state educated but got help from school to apply and write PS. To OP, the best, most satisfying revenge on parents who constantly talk down your kids comp is results day

I'm sure that's true, if these parents who openly disparage your child's school actually exist!

Based on my experience, they'd be more likely tying themselves into a pretzel trying to praise it (if their child goes privately and yours goes state).

"And lots of people who actually work in admissions saying that you are talking rubbish."

Maybe they can explain why Eton gets so many of its pupils into Christ church college then? Do they really not have a special relationship? It's all just the hard work from Eton pupils who all 100% totally deserve to be there over kids from state schools or even lesser private schools with identical results?

Or why certain pupils from certain schools who apply to certain colleges are guaranteed interviews?

Lots of kids from private schools choose their colleges based on the ones they like the most!

I chose my college because I was told Hertford college oxford would definitely give me an interview and probably an offer.

I got the interview (even with AAB predicted grades) but not the offer (not good enough!)

IME links with colleges have nothing to do with admissions apart from schools warning off all but the exceptional students for choosing to apply to the historically linked college in order to safeguard their reputation.

Yes, this is a big factor. Top schools tend to send only their very best students to my college.

User - right, and that expectation means you will view the candidate more favourably.

A kid from a state school doesn't have the already favourable image you project on the kid from the private school you've never met before.

Before you even meet private school kid you assume they will be great because of the school they come from.

But equivalent state schooler with identical grades doesn't get that positive image.

Still interested in your view on Eton and Christ Church - widely admitted to have a "special connection". Or is that bollocks too?

User - right, and that expectation means you will view the candidate more favourably.

No, it doesn't, because I am not biased - I look at the whole picture: candidate's application, performance in interview, performance in tests, taking into account background etc etc.( If I were biased it would be in the other direction, actually. Most academics are actually pretty left wing after all.)

BTW students from Eton pretty much never apply for my subject.

It is bollocks to say that any school has any particularly special connection. In reality, though, schools such as Eton and Winchester select so much at 13 that they produce many Oxbridge candidates at 18. That's the reality of being a very selective school, full of kids with lots of support from parents from an early age, kids who are exposed to so much beyond and outside the school curriculum.

Before you even meet private school kid you assume they will be great because of the school they come from.

But equivalent state schooler with identical grades doesn't get that positive image.

Sure, if you've stepped right out of a Dickensian novel.