Tories pour millions into new grammars while state schools discuss the possibility of a 4 day week

[noblegiraffe]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/07/theresa-may-unveils-plans-new-generation-grammar-schools/

In a cowardly move, the Tories are publishing their White Paper on grammars before publishing the responses to the Green Paper which, the best thing Justine Greening could say about them was that they were 'not overwhelmingly negative'.

What a bunch of fucking shite. And where are they going to get the thousands of pounds required for free transport for golden ticket poor kids? The only potential money-saver here is that we know that the vast majority of poor kids don't get into grammars. Why not save this money and put it into the school that the poor kid would be going to originally? Then everyone would win, including the poor kid who isn't faced with a long commute, the poor kid who didn't get into the grammar, and the 90% of kids who aren't 'grammar material' (decided by a faulty test which puts kids in the wrong school aged 10) who would see more investment in their education which is desperately needed at the moment.

And there would be an obvious problem with any application from someone applying for a grammar school headship who only had experience of 11-16.

One of the deputy heads at ds's school came from a grammar. He has found the extra workload a shock, to put it mildly.

Bertrand don't be so daft. It's no more or less work to be a deputy head/ head at a school such as your DS's than it is to be a deputy head/head elsewhere.

Would this article on sixth forms in Kent be helpful?

www.kentadvice.co.uk/peters-blog/news-a-comments/item/918-transfer-to-grammar-schools-in-the-sixth-form.html

Goodbye Had no idea there were two grammar schools associations!! It's why I always try to provide links so people can investigate for themselves.

I am well aware that the non grammar schools in a county run grammar system are secondary moderns so no accusations in my direction please! There also needs to be acceptance that some of these schools have superb results and are better than many comprehensives. The important thing is that they need to be well run and there is no reason why Heads cannot be mentored by grammar Heads and that FM
A level children cannot go to a grammar for lessons - in fact they do. I would also see ideas and strategies regarding assessment techniques being a good area for developing together. Heads are just not concerned with challenging children all day in any school. The differences are not as wide as some are painting.

The differences are not as wide as some are painting.
Is there really no stigma/pride associated with failing or passing the 11+? Is there no perception amongst local parents that the grammar is somehow better?

"Bertrand don't be so daft. It's no more or less work to be a deputy head/ head at a school such as your DS's than it is to be a deputy head/head elsewhere"

Really? Good to know that there are no more behavioural issues, challenging families, learning difficulties or any other problems in a school with 37% FSM and 5% SEN than in a school with 5% FSM and 0.2% SEN then! Another nail in the selective coffin......

No bojo that's correct. Which is why there's a lot of collaboration....

HPFA it's not merely the fact of two, it's why there are two and what the differences in outlook are between them and which grammars belong to which association and why etc etc! So many things are not black and white.

Bertrand the challenges may be different but that doesn't mean they compute as being greater in difficulty or number. You're showing a pronounced lack knowledge and imagination here and resorting to yet more soundbites doesn't help.

Come to think of it Bert, I particularly dislike your reference to families. It's very patronizing to families of DC in schools other than grammars and your characterization wholly fails to address the issues which are often faced particularly by grammar school DC. At the end of the day all these DC are teenagers with all the difficulties that can throw up and if you think there are no social or domestic issues faced by teens at grammars then you live in a bubble.

"you think there are no social or domestic issues faced by teens at grammars then you live in a bubble."

Oh, the irony!

Not seeing much irony.

Mh issues are evident across the teenage population. Break up,abuse,death, substance abuse and other life traumas happen across the population.

How damaging on so many counts to say otherwise.

Given that every grammar I have looked at has entry requirements for internal candidates, including superselectives, one grammar that doesn't would appear to be the exception rather than the rule.

Interesting document there, HPFA, it seems that lots more grammar kids leave the grammar in Y11 than non-selective kids move the other way.

I was reading the comments and this one is awful:

"Our son goes to Ebbsfleet Academy and we are told he will do well at GCSE tomorrow. He didn;t want to go there, but no other school had palces and that is weher he was sent! He also narrowly missed out on grammar school five years ago and as you prophesied, we didn't get in on appeal with just twelve success out of 130 at the two schools. He hates the authoriatrian nature of the school but has stuck it out as he is determined to get on. He now wants to go on to do A Level. Ebbsfleet does not do them, the grammar schools are not interested, the College has stopped offering A Level years ago. He is being stopped from following his dream to go to University. The education service has ruined our son's educational chances like so many others in Dartford. Is there no one able to see what a nonsense this all is with everyone looking after their own interests and no one looking after our young people's?"

A bright kid allocated the wrong school unable to take A-levels because of the grammar system

As I said. Glad to hear that. One of th main reasons people are in favour of selective education completely eliminated.

Totally anecdotally, I have observed that while pupil premium is a crude measure, it does seem to identify kids who are more likely to have issues than other students.

I like that Kent blog - the author says he's neutral about whether selection is a "good thing" and as far as I can tell (not having personal knowledge of the Kent situation) that appears to be the case - lots of useful information in there.

Yes, PR's blog is interesting. He does make a living out of 11+ appeals, though, so a weather eye might be needed........

On another part of the blog he is very scornful about those grammars which prioritise their League Table position over the interests of their students. But why I like the blog is he has the knowledge to identify those particular schools rather than tarring all with the same brush.

Yes, he's also very informative about the academy issue, and about non selective schools.

There is no consistency on primary schools helping all capable pupils be aware of and receive necessary help to pass 11+ test. THEREFORE the only dc who will miss are those whose parents on principle do not want them to take the test and.... Pp fsm dc whose parents are not engaged. For this reason I feel using lack of fsm pupils as some sign of how unfair they are is wrong.

You really, really don't get it, do you?

Obviously it's not the fault of grammar schools that they have practically no Pupil Pupil premium kids.

The system is inherently biased against disadvantaged children. And even if primary schools offered coaching, they would still be competing against kids who have support from home and from school. So they would still be a massive disadvantage.

And, on a practical level, how would primary schools manage it? Who would they offer the support to? When would they do it? What would they not do in order to fit it in? Where would the budget come from?

Arf I found this thread by accident this morning but I noticed BR has responded on this thread to numerous links I posted on another thread. The links I had posted and more on yet another thread, that she asked for but ignored once posted. The links were ofsted saying comps area failing their top sets and its a national shame. BR love the fact you only comment on the one article you can, the opinion piece. the mind boggles. As for dc with mh issues across the board I have friend who works in grammar area and I cannot assure you you're, self harm, suicide keeps her just as busy in grammar as in other schools. One wonders of the level and depth of some posters life experiences!! OR age, maybe some posters are very young. How can anyone try and ascertain that dc in grammar or private schools are insulated from all life problems is beyond me.

Can assure you you

Iadore It's not just FSM kids who are discriminated against by the system, it's skewed across the whole socio-economic scale, so clearly can't be fixed by simply getting primaries to coach the FSM kids.

"Even when 11-year-olds have the same level of academic attainment, the most deprived pupil has a 25% chance of attending a grammar compared with a 70% chance for the least deprived pupil."

www.theguardian.com/education/2017/mar/09/grammar-schools-new-figures-reveal-favouritism

There's lots of evidence that link low income and mental health problems.