Tories pour millions into new grammars while state schools discuss the possibility of a 4 day week

[noblegiraffe]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/07/theresa-may-unveils-plans-new-generation-grammar-schools/

In a cowardly move, the Tories are publishing their White Paper on grammars before publishing the responses to the Green Paper which, the best thing Justine Greening could say about them was that they were 'not overwhelmingly negative'.

What a bunch of fucking shite. And where are they going to get the thousands of pounds required for free transport for golden ticket poor kids? The only potential money-saver here is that we know that the vast majority of poor kids don't get into grammars. Why not save this money and put it into the school that the poor kid would be going to originally? Then everyone would win, including the poor kid who isn't faced with a long commute, the poor kid who didn't get into the grammar, and the 90% of kids who aren't 'grammar material' (decided by a faulty test which puts kids in the wrong school aged 10) who would see more investment in their education which is desperately needed at the moment.

This Headteacher has been Head in comprehensives and a grammar.

teacherhead.com/about/

Unfortunately left his last post in a comprehensive after a poor Ofsted report so not really going to encourage others to do the same.

Bojo,

So what would be the best school for a child gifted (by which I mean top set of a grammar school) in one subject area, and 'below grammar school standard' in another?

In a comprehensive, with good setting in place, they can be well-taught in both their strong and weak subjects. If in the 'other' school in a grammar area, they will have no near-peers in their strong subject, while in a grammar school they will have no near-peers in their weak one.#

Grammar supporters seem to divide children into 'able' and 'less able', and imagine that they can neatly be segregated into 'grammar schools' and 'secondary modern schools' - in reality, children are often a complex mix of both, and a school system that caters for this mix under the same roof is surely preferable?

Efteling- as a point of information, your guardian "article" is in fact an opinion piece, with no more credibility than if you or I and written it.

Bojo, I wonder whether heads of grammar schools stay in their selective enclave because it is easier there?

Perhaps they don't want to test themselves in secondary moderns and find that the complex educational and social problems that they face there - high levels of SEN, much higher levels of children from disadvantaged families, hugely greater numbers of children with families disengaged from education - something that their grammar school experience is not helpful in addressing?

There isn't, tbh, a huge amount of head to head mentoring across the secondary sector anyway, IME, though I do think that there are some successful examples of schools in the same area working together.

There is absolutely no way the Head of a grammar school can successfully mentor the head of a secondary modern.

To clarify, I meant that there were successful examples of comprehensive to comprehensive head mentoring, not cross sector. agree that grammar to secondary modern head mentoring would be a case of absolute mutual incomprehension...

I think comprehensives suit the type of child we have discussed. I
agree that the jobs appear different but there are definitely similarities. A grammar does sponsor a primary school here and after years of total
Failure it has now improved.

I don't believe the type of child in the school is necessarily the great divide. I think status has something to do with it. However managing staff, recruiting staff, managing resources, developing the curriculum, ensuring high standards of teaching, ensuring all pupils make progress are things all Heads do. Some do it better than others though. I am aware all Heads have pressures but the best Heads are not in our worst schools. If they were, there might be a better education for more children. I am not convinced schools being islands works well anyway. Collaboration is something that should be investigated further.

Bojo, this issue is that as soon as you have a grammar, you don't have comprehensives. So the school needed for those children just isn't there.

I think there is an opportunity for collaboration - between schools of similar types and intakes / challenges, but different outcomes. The schools with 78% PP who are doing brilliantly in terms of progress should be collaborating with similar schools with lower progress (though we have to think about what is in it for the 'better' school).

I do absolutely think that instead of this daft grammar proposal we should have a plan based on what the best comprehensives - as in the schools who are succeeding best with the most challenging intakes - are doing, and extending it to similar schools. Collaborations between the heads of these schools and other similar schools could well be part of the plan.

But to suggest that a secondary modern can learn from a grammar just because the first is RI and the latter is good is just blinkered.

Its one of my bugbears in all of these threads that the posters who live in grammar areas talk as if the other schools are Comps.

They are not.

If you are within 5 miles of a Grammar
or have more than a couple of faith schools within 10 miles
the other schools are NOT comps
as they are taking what is left after the other schools have selected.

Comps are - as I keep pointing out - the schools in Winchester that between the three of them take every child based only on their address

Oh wow - here is the head of the Grammar Schools Association admitting that children from disadvantaged backgrounds won't be able to compete with middle class kids

twitter.com/comp_future/status/840713432374616064

Tried to copy relevant bits from the article but computer playing up - there's a fuller discussion in the link.

And apparently Tory MPs don't like the idea that the grammar schools might actually contain the poor people they are allegedly for:

twitter.com/Samfr/status/840702458045300736

Our grammars are 20,25 and 30 miles away. No faith schools nearby. Our options are comps.

Is a comp a comp if it loses kids to another "comp"?

Old articles from the Torygraph but relevant to this thread:

Adults put off education for life after failing 11+
www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/9547771/Adults-put-off-education-for-life-after-failing-11-plus.html

The 11+ has taken over my life
www.telegraph.co.uk/education/8264590/The-11-plus-has-taken-over-my-life.html

Education Datalab has gone into this here:

educationdatalab.org.uk/2016/11/when-is-a-comprehensive-school-actually-a-secondary-modern/

I think I said before, that for me a secondary modern is a school which is defined by the fact that children are there because they have failed/would not be likely to pass the 11+ rather than by the academic breakdown of the pupils. So, for instance, Oxford Academy has a tiny number of high achievers but I would call it a comprehensive. Wellington School in Trafford has far more High Achievers but I would call it a secondary modern because I doubt that anyone in Trafford has actually passed the 11+ and still chosen Wellington.

I understand from Mumsnet threads that many (perhaps a majority) of people in Kingston simply ignore the "Tiffin madness" as one describes it since the comprehensives there are good. So I would say a superselective could co-exist with good comps if they are very few in number.

The government has rather been hoist by its own petard by making school structures so chaotic. If Local Authorities had still had control of schools they could have said "OK, each county will have 2 superselective schools" And while I would have thought it was a waste of money giving a free private education to a few kids I would probably have learnt to live with it.

HPFA just sounding a note of caution. You've wrongly attributed comments by the head of the National Grammar Schools' Association to the head of the Grammar School Heads' Association. You need to look into the background and politics and membership of these two associations before confusing the two.

Fourmantent those articles about the 11+ taking over people's lives by female Telegraph writers are always absurd. It's totally a reflection on them (and their shortness of copy), not on the exam.

There's a huge amount of sharing of good practice across schools at the moment, across the different sectors. It's hardly the work of a genius to think this might be of mutual help!

If you look at grammar schools' headteacher recruitment material you'll see that it often actively encourages applicants from the comprehensive sector.

TalkinPeace my DCs school is 6 miles from the nearest comp in one direction and 8.9 miles from the comp in the opposite direction, and then in the other two directions, 12.5 miles and and 13.5 miles respectively. I think they therefore qualify as comps, on your definition.

I get that goodbye but still an interesting read.

" I looked down on those who went to fee-paying schools as children who hadn’t passed the 11-plus and were therefore less ''academic’’."

Nice!

If you look at grammar schools' headteacher recruitment material you'll see that it often actively encourages applicants from the comprehensive sector.

Does it actively encourage applicants from Secondary Moderns? The original statement about Headship recruitment didn't refer to comprehensives. Have any Kent and Bucks Sec Mod Heads gone on to hold Grammar Headships?

I suspect thatvgoodbye has just not noticed the entry requirements for her childrens' school's 6th form because the pupils routinely make the cut.........

Bertrand the entry requirement for our school's sixth form are relevant from entry Sept 2018 and I'm well aware of them. It remains absolutely correct to say that all my other seven DC have proceeded automatically along with their peers. I tend to be absolutely correct in what I say and on those rare occasions that I make a mistake, I apologise and admit it :)

As in 'entry requirement.....is relevant (not are). My mistake - apologies.

It wouldn't refer to secondary moderns as such Peregrina, obviously.