Independent school - the poor kid

[amicrazy2017]

Hello

I am currently pondering a grammar vs independent school place for my daughter and wondered what people's experiences are of being the 'poor' kid?

To place this in context, my DD does to a local small prep school where all the parents are of a similar financial background to us. I.E. home owners with mortgages, dual income, university educated but not privately educated ourselves. Modest holidays either at places like Centreparcs or visiting family in Dubai.

She's been offered a place at a top 10 independent school and while we can (just about) afford the fees, we would be doing so out of employment income and with big lifestyle sacrifices. We think it might be worth it as this school does seem like the best fit for her and is her preference over the grammar.

However if she went she would likely be one of the poorest students there. So my question is this; how do you find it if you are one of the poorer families going to a top 10 independent school? Is it alienating to be working parents around trustafarian parents? Do you find it impacts your DC's social lives?

Thoughts / experiences / comments apppeciated!

I have had the same slight misgivings myself, but I agree that it probably depends on the school. I am in London and many of the independent secondary day schools do attract children from quite varied backgrounds. The school my dd will be going to does have children from seriously wealthy backgrounds but also lots who are relatively average by London standards.

Go with the school you like best and can afford.
As the top indies are all academically selective, there is likely to be more awareness of who is too set rather than top earners.
I think you might find more monied children (of lower academic ability) well out of the top 10 ....

TOP set not too set !

We are the genuine poor ones with a one in prep and one at top senior school. We were very, very lucky to get very generous bursaries to both but there are days when I can barely afford the fuel for the school journey. When the kids are away at school my DH and I eat very carefully ie cheap pasta etc so that I can save money for when the DCs are home.

DS1 has just asked us if he can bring a friend home for Easter hols...Im terrified. What will the boy think of our tiny little house (we don't even have a spare room!) where is he going to sleep? DS says he can 'bunk in' with him but I'm ever so slightly mortified what he might tell his parents.
We are very careful at hiding our poverty at school as we don't want our kids to be picked on or looked down on. DS1 does know that the school help with his fees but he doesn't know how much. The children all get on great and he has some fabulously wealthy friends but he knows he can't go skiing or on holiday to Dubai (or even Centre Parcs!)
I am more interested in the fabulous opportunities that my children have had and the world class education so we just try to muddle through.

I think you are putting an awful lot on yur dd if you have to change spending habits.

I also think you should look at what you could buy with her current fees if she goes to the grammar, school trips, books, tutor, holidays.

Education is not just about school.

It is difficult - you need to be able to fit in with what the other girls are doing. So their clothes, holidays, going to their house. I went to one of these schools - I wasn't the poorest kid but there were a few with bursaries / less well off. Some of them did fine but mostly they were not as included as they would have been. As pp said, school is about much more than education. She needs to make friends and be confident, otherwise she will struggle all round. Girls can be vile in secondary school - just sayin. I know cause I was one of them. Don't set her up to fail.

I think choose the school you are happiest with based on what they offer your daughter not necessarily based on fees or whether your DD high fives someone. I dont think how well they get on with kids at a tour/visit is your answer, it's how well does it suit your daughters education needs and you as a family. If it then matches most things you want and you don't mind being stretched financially, then go for it.
Once your daughter is in the school it becomes very real and the cliques will come up and your daughter will need to find her place socially. This is when she will need to fit in with her strength wherher academics, music or arts or whatever.
So yes look at those things and go from there. Your daughters friends will more likely come from shared commonalities, likes and experiences not money or access to it. Hopefully you will find your "fit".

Proper posh people don't give a shit about other people's wealth.

100%

We were once at DS's boarding prep at some ghastly school function a brand new Bentley turned up and the mum got out all mink fur coat diamonds etc. One of the very wealthy parents turned to me shuddered and simply said "New money". Another then said: "Old money is fine, no money is fine but never new money."
Bit sad really, I was one of the few who'd talked to this mum and she was really nice.
IME as ninenicknames said the really wealthy people, the Sunday Times Rich listers etc don't care if you've no money.

Try and find out about the parent profile. If they are all property developers and Russian oligarchs I would stay well away as the cash flashing might affect your child.
If they are professional and educated like you then you will have more in common.
Independent schools are getting more nouveau riche and that ok one thing. The other thing is having s pressurised environment for girls -they do have a reputation for eating disorders so you need to find out what the school is really like and what the parents are up to.

She needs to make friends and be confident, otherwise she will struggle all round!>DS1 has just asked us if he can bring a friend home for Easter hols...Im terrified......We are very careful at hiding our poverty at school

At DS's prep we had the odd Rusdian Oligarch they never flashed their cash around. As for the numbers of "property developers" I'm not sure how you'd actually find that out no school has under the admission section on their website; number of parents who are property developer flashing their money around: 15%. Also Kennington do you really think they flash their money around more than bankers? And what do you mean by flashing their money around? They're not going to pretend they don't live a very big house, drive a large Merc, or even have a driver driving a large Merc or take exotic expensive holidays to far flung destination that would be ridiculous. Most parents at DS2 senior school were educated but few professionals bar corporate lawyers etc, Im assuming youre thinking of doctors teachers etc, they cant afford boarding fees so if at the school will be on a bursary. Honestly In my 11 years experience at "top" schools very few cared.

I wouldn't worry a jot about the parent profile.

Your DD will be making friends with the other girls (most of whom. as in any school, won't give a stuff about apparent wealth). And parents just aren't as involved as they are for primary (of in your case, prep).

You sound a like us but would not class us as the 'poor ones'. Back in the day I went to a top 10 school (as in league table) and my dad literally spent most of his money on school fees. Few family holidays abroad, mostly in the U.K. , not flashy clothes, no flashy cars. Did anyone care, no. However it did make want to do really well. I got a great degree and a good job. Now we holiday in centre parcs and been to Dubai and I tell my kids every day how Iucky they are. They are at a prep but no one cares about money. Yes there are people that go away every holiday but sometimes the kids want to be at home with their friends. Am sure she will find a group of friends who she likes and money won't come into it. And if it does then they aren't really good friends. There will be enough pupils to be a very wide mix of backgrounds. However would be tempted by the grammar.....

You will find a mix of kids at any school - stuck up ratbags and non assuming rich kids. In my experience it's not the money it's the attitude - some people are just obnoxious.

Mum used to say that money can come and go very quickly but when it boils down to the bones, some people are just jerks. I tell DS this.

Parent profile is just one way to find out if there is a strong academic support.
For me the bankers aren't flashy at all. They are maths grads these days anyway.
With regards to flashing cash I am talking about buying their dds designer bags young; booking parties at smart hotels. Obviously holidays are a matter of taste anyway.
This is just in my limited experience of one prep. Although I have friends at west London schools too and they said the ostentatious waste is excessive too.

Only send to the independent school if you can comfortably afford it. Our circumstances changed half way through private primary for our younger two. We decided to scrape together the cash to let them both finish - but boy it was painful (& they're both happy in their secondary state schools - esp Ds2 - he much prefers his state secondary to his private primary).

My DS1 is in a state primary and DS2 is in a prep (fees paid by grandparents) as I had no doubt that ds1 would pass the grammar school exams but this is wouldn't be the case for DS2 if he goes to a state primary.

DS1 passed state grammar school exam and has been offered a place there. He also passed a top independent school exam and won a bursary place as he did well in the exam. He probably will be one of the poorest kids. But this did not stop us to accept the offer, it has been a privilege to have the opportunity. I am sure he will be happy there.

OP I would just say as a note of caution that girls tend to shop as a group social activity plus buy each other birthday presents more than boys. I think therefore differences in spending money has the potential to make a girl feel more uncomfortable than boys (who generally don't notice what another boy is buying or wearing) and would need to be discussed with your DD.

However actually in school though, especially high achieving schools, DCs seem to care more about the prestige of ability and personality than spending power.
As a parent, (even for the very well off parent if compared with the internationally super rich) then you have to accept that you won't be able to reciprocate some of the types of invites that your DC has from a material perspective so can't be mainly the 'bestower' from that point of view.

However in teenage years and young adulthood friendships are made by the DCs rather than influenced by friendships between the parents so that any hang-ups that parents might have about disparities in income or whatever with other parents are irrelevant. If your DC's friends are happy and comfortable with your DC and in your house then that is what matters.
Basically I would say that it is the fit of the personality and interests of your DD that matters for the choice between the two schools and whether the independent school is affordable, not the difference of wealth between families.

Our observations from a girls independent in London (selective but far from top 10):

Kindness => good (kind) friends
Kindness + brains => respect
Wealth or not is thankfully not a focus or issue among the girls - and varies greatly

Kennington we know quite a lot of bankers and equivalent very well paid jobs none have math degrees.
I don't think you should judge a family just because they hold very expensive birthday parties (we've been to a fair few of these over the years) anymore that they should judge you by what car you drive/size of your house. People are people whatever their wealth or not, there will be nice ones and unpleasant upthemselves ones just try and avoid the latter.

One of mine was at an independent for secondary school. She had been a state primary, whereas many, though by no means all, had been to prep schools. We were at the poorer end of the spectrum, but not the poorest. You need to account for the fees going up every year as well and compulsory school lunches - they weren't allowed to take packed lunches - and longer school holidays. Many optional school trips we couldn't afford and she didn't go on - but nor was she the only one - places like Iceland for geography, or any skiing trips, etc. She did one school trip to France for an activity week in Yr 7, and that was it. We were taken aback by, in our eyes, expensive presents that were given at Christmas, etc, by her friends. You need to work out what might happen if one of you loses your job - this happened to us, and it was a bit desperate, as it happened mid GCSES. DD moved to state school for sixth form and actually thought by comparison the teaching she got at the independent (London day school) was not particularly great, though the behaviour of pupils was better.

OP, my DS attended the UK’s poshest private school by a long way (seriously) where princes and paupers mix freely together. If a prince and a pauper were to be found in a room together and you’re asked to guess which is the prince and which the pauper, chances are you’d get it wrong.

My point is that in this school, the pupils and their parents don’t give a monkey’s what your family background is. But what they’re seriously interested in is how your DC perform in school and what they achieve.

On the other hand, my DD and her cousins attended two different top London grammars. Whoa! The air that some of the parents put on at these schools was simply out of this world. Each time I meet these parents I just smile thinking what a hopelessly small world they live in!

Go for the independent that your DD loves!