Independent school - the poor kid

[amicrazy2017]

Hello

I am currently pondering a grammar vs independent school place for my daughter and wondered what people's experiences are of being the 'poor' kid?

To place this in context, my DD does to a local small prep school where all the parents are of a similar financial background to us. I.E. home owners with mortgages, dual income, university educated but not privately educated ourselves. Modest holidays either at places like Centreparcs or visiting family in Dubai.

She's been offered a place at a top 10 independent school and while we can (just about) afford the fees, we would be doing so out of employment income and with big lifestyle sacrifices. We think it might be worth it as this school does seem like the best fit for her and is her preference over the grammar.

However if she went she would likely be one of the poorest students there. So my question is this; how do you find it if you are one of the poorer families going to a top 10 independent school? Is it alienating to be working parents around trustafarian parents? Do you find it impacts your DC's social lives?

Thoughts / experiences / comments apppeciated!

"I used to long for unaffordable clothes!"

To be fair, I think this happens in all schools! I went to a state school and remember complaining that I didn't have branded trainers. Suspect it's just part of being a teenager!

This is virtually identical to your thread from yesterday

It's an interesting discussion.

I went to a private school. There were assisted places back then, so slightly different perhaps. I had friends whose parents were close on millionaires (would be in todays money anyway), and friends who lived hand to mouth-often both being empty.
I don't recall it ever being an issue. Looking back I can see the differences, but at the time I didn't.
The friends I keep up with are from all walks of life-and still are.

Dh went to a bog standard comprehensive. He thinks they're much better because you get to mix with everyone. He has kept up with the people who are, like him, middle class doing-very-well-in-your-detached-house-thanks.
From what he says there was a certain amount of flaunting money and certainly I don't think they mixed with the groups from different areas.

So my experience is it was less of an issue at my private than his comprehensive.

What I would say though, is if you have a good grammar she's happy with, then you have to have a very good reason to pick the other.

But it's a choice I would love to have!
Whatever you choose there's a very good chance that in a year or two's time you'll be saying that you're so glad you chose that way!

Huh, PuntCuffin? I can only see one thread by the OP yesterday and if you think that's virtually identical to this one... well, you'd better not teach reading comprehension.

I'd also agree that it completely depends on the school. The type of parents and wealth is very different at a school like Wycombe Abbey than for Wellington for example.

I was the 100% scholarship kid at a top boarding school.

Yes, I was 'different', and felt very different - but my 'difference' was not necessarily about income. Some of it was - I never went on trips, I had secondhand uniform, we holidayed in student accommodation in Yorkshire - but some of it was being very bright, a year young and the child of high minded, church mice poor parents who were above noticing things like clothes and thus dressed me in lumpy handknitted jumpers (from unravelled jumpers belonging to older siblings / parents / grandparents) and slightly odd home-made skirts.

I do think it was easier at a boarding school, though - our house would have made the difference VERY obvious to everyone had I attended a day school or had anyone come to visit.

Our experience at Grammar is pretty much as amidawsh described.
We are the 'poor' ones, but my dd is much like Notdeadyet's dc and laughs at some of the stuff they come out with. You may encounter it at either type of school, or you may not?
Go for the school you and your dd like.

As lots of people have said, the kids rarely notice or take much notice.....unless a child themselves is very aware of being poorer and feels inferior in some way and gives off that vibe. And TBH, when kids give off that vibe, I think it usually comes from parents feeling that having less money makes them inferior and passing that feeling on.

How do you talk about wealth with your child? Are differences acknowledged but not a big issue? Does your family clearly value things like family relationships, time together etc more than money? Do you clearly not judge people yourself by their wealth? Do you accept people as you find them in both your own home and elsewhere? If so, your attitude is probably healthy and it is likely your child's will be too.
However, if you are constantly comparing yourself to others, feeling a bit jealous of their houses, cars and holidays or always noticing the things they have and you haven't, and if you let those things get you down and feel a bit inferior, it probably will rub off on your kid a bit.

So, if you are just having a passing thought about this issue, realise it's really not a big deal for most people. You don't sound like you will be dirt poor compared to 99% of the families anyway. If however, this is a big issue for you and you know you are always going to be aware of money and feel poor, then think carefully about whether to go there. I'd say the issue is attitutude not wealth.

And incidentally, I think it's interesting to see that someone times those who would feel poor in certain environments can become quite boastful in less wealthy environments. I've noticed that one or two friends have a real chip on their shoulders about people being richer than them in certain circles.....but when with those who are less affluent, become big show offs about what they do have. Odd.....I guess it's just that money is very important to them and how they value the,selves and others.

Both of my DC are close friends with pupils on full bursaries who have far less than a lot of the other pupils.

I don't think it's ever been an issue for them (it certainly isn't for us).

Perhaps when children are younger, they might assume everyone has as much as them and be thoughtless, but by teen years they're savvy enough to get it. Someone saying 'I can't do X, Y, Z because I can't afford it' would be perfectly normal.

And to be honest, rich or not, young people do the same shit the world over.

I went to a boarding school with fees £25k a year. Looking back now I must have been the poor kind but I didn't know. And I don't think my friends did.

Children/teens I don't think care about that stuff as much as we think. All I knew was that I had nice friends. I never asked what their parents did in any great detail. We talked about boys, clothes etc not bank balances.

Someone will always be the poorest, even if that's the child from the family with only three helicopters.

BbddpP here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/2867615-Turning-down-grammar-place

Same thing, choosing between grammar and independent, paying out of income, sacrifices etc. It's all part of the same equation. Nothing wrong with my reading comprehension, but thanks for the concern.

Thanks for your attention puntcuffin.

But am finding the discussion useful so thanks everyone!

The children of the superrich are not envied. Their lives are rarely straightforward.

In London it can be quite difficult to tell. An American friend once explained to me that, despite owning a scruffy house with a London mortgage in an edgy location and driving an elderly car, I was probably better off than many living in flash West London homes with all the trappings. Rent, fees and the rest would be paid by the employer. If the job went the rest went as well.

And at the end of prep school a group of parents engaged in a discussion about how much they disliked the bursar. We had never spoken to the bursar. We had no reason to. I assume at least some had had problems paying the fees on time. And really they were not those who I would have thought of as less well off. I guess those who count the pennies make sure they don't get into arrears.

I think it does depend on the school. Parents are more likely to stretch their budgets for a top 10 private school than for one lower down the rankings. Some schools also have much more of a reputation for attractiing the very wealthy, and there are different levels of bursary provision. I have DCs at 2 different selective London independent schools with quite different feels in this regard. If you felt able to name the school (or maybe list a few schools including the one in question), i am sure people could share their impressions.

Even though as said my daughters school was renowned for Surrey princesses, I found they didn't actually want the unaffordable clothes, they wanted the really trendy cool stuff from asos or H&M or top shop. Jack wills and the like became a bit passé and none of them were decked out in Gucci, even if the occasional parent was. Most of the kids themselves were also on very tight budgets so weren't awash with cash. Honestly they were all fairly equal.

The issue really isn't the kids, the issue is always the parents and how they interact and view each other. Parents can be cliquey at any school though. As we see by all the school gate mum threads on here.

The kids generally don't give a shit.

I had an assisted place at a selective independent school, my parents had relatively modest jobs (my mum was a part time administrator for a double glazing company, my dad worked in a factory office but was made redundant when I was in the second year). Our modest holidays were a few days in a caravan here and there, I also had a baby sister.

I was the poor kid. I wasn't the only one, I made a new friend who was in a similar situation, but most of my friends took their wealth for granted and jetted off round the world on holidays, had all the latest gadgets, fancy cars and big houses. I always felt like I couldn't relate to their world - my nan paid for my school trips out of her savings but I only ever went on one non educational trip, to Paris for a week (the others were exchange trips as I did languages for A level). My only friend who was as poor as us left after GCSEs to go to a state sixth form.

I will always be grateful for the chances afforded to me by the education I got, but at the time it was awful being torn away from all my local friends at my state primary and transplanted into a different world of ponies, polo and long haul travel where I didn't know anyone.

Incidentally, my closest friend from school confided recently that she always envied me because although we had very little, my parents owned their own home and had that security, even while finances and job security was shaky. Her parents had well paid jobs (teacher at a prep school and engineer) but rented - though it was a huge three storey townhouse with a piano room and a whole floor for my friend and I to share when I stayed there.

Honestly, if you think holidays at Dubai and Centreparcs are modest, you're already in a bubble. At my kids' primary, those would be considered high-end.

But my impression is that independent day secondaries are more socially mixed than prep schools. Many more will pay for secondary only than private all the way. At places like NLCS a decent proportion are modest families (e.g. bus drivers) who channel all income into education.

How are you defining Top 10 Independent? Do you mean by cost or by results.

My son is at the top co-ed independent in terms of results and there is a real mix of people there. The school also offers a large number of bursaries.

There are certainly people poorer than "modest" holidays you have described. The majority of parents are academics or professionals rather than family money (although there are some that have this).

At secondary level there is not really the school gate mums issue though as kids either get there under their own steam, dropped and run type drop offs/collections or public transport.

I know handful of parents (mainly through rugby team) at year 10 whereas I knew pretty much every parent at prep (yr3-8)

You can never tell who really has more money. Sometimes the person driving the battered landrover in the shabby Barbour has more wealth than the parent in the shiney new Range. They just spend/save it differently.

I was once realibly told by a bursar of another school that the general consensus amongst bursars is that DS2's school has some of the wealthiest parents of any school. From visiting houses and observing/listening to their lifestyles I have no problem believing this, and many boys had at least 1 if not two brothers at the school ( you wouldn't want to open their school fee bill at the beginning of every term) and or sisters at equally expensive schools. All worked by the way, well at least all fathers worked, not all mothers.
We in comparison were definitely on the other end of the wealth spectrum. For example DS2 once said we were the only family he knew at school who didn't go skiing (I frankly wouldn't go even if I was a Sunday Times rich lister I don't fall over very well any more everything goes crack), exotic holidays to exclusive and expensive destinations were the norm as were very large houses (usually in the multiple). But he never felt out of place, he was popular with his peers and he said only a few cared and they were generally disliked by everyone.
The experience of living alongside the super wealthy has also taught him useful life lessons, money and possessions do not bring you happiness, and as I've said on here numerous times he know from direct personal experience money doesn't protect you from a freak tragic accident that very sadly kills you, or from divorce, cancer, or simply crap parenting. Money doesn't make you cleverer than others nor does it make you a nicer person. He has emerged after 11 years of living with the super wealthy as probably one of the most unmaterialistic person you'll ever meet, designer label, flash cars and big house don't impress him or interest him in the slightest. We live in a very materialistic society and I think this is a very useful life lesson.
OP if you and your DD like the school and you can still afford to live fairly comfortably but essentials and have a few luxuaries (these don't have to be exotic expensive holidays we could never afford these when the children were at school) then go for it.

I don't think you'll be the poorest OP! There will probably be kids there on massive bursaries. Our school has everyone from single parents / ex state school kids on bursaries to kids who arrive chauffeured in a Rolls. I don't think anyone cares!!

I have three teen DCs at 2 separate independent schools, paid for out of our own earnings. We are nowhere near as wealthy as some of DC's peers. But it's never been an issue.