Appeal advice

[Theworldisfullofidiots]

Our Ds didn't get into tge school we wanted and got the second choice. We are going to appeal on a number of grounds and then keep applying.
It is a faith school and his sister already goes. We are going to appeal on a number fo issues and was hoping for some advice from people who have appealed (particularly if you were successful) and anyone who has any knowledge. Thank you!

If it's not published then I don't think they can use it.

What they seem to mean is that they have had plenty of applications for those who do go that regularly so that's now the "standard",which seems wrong

Yep

Did you also mention earlier that your church only runs a service fortnightly? In which case is their inability to provide a service for you to attend impacting you meeting the criteria? That also doesn't sound very reasonable.

Here is a school that clearly defines commitment and involvement

www.st-chads.co.uk/files/admissions.pdf

OP, it's actually going to be impossible to advise you properly if you aren't willing to let one of the very expert people on here help you with actual access to all the published information. I don't know where you are getting the information from that applications are "massaged", admissions just don't work like that but I know lots of people will say things like that in an over-subscription situation.

They seem to then set the criteria given the number of applications they have - are you saying that they change the weighting given to applications from year to year depending on how many applications they have? Also fairly unbelievable but, if true, definitely grounds for an appeal. However, that statement doesn't make sense if your supplementary form has been signed by the vicar as part of your application. Once that is done, you are either in or out or that particular category. The admissions panel cannot then quiz the vicar (or vicars? - there must be more than one parish supplying pupils to this school) about the specific circumstances of every applicant's family and reprioritise on what the vicar says about how often you clean the church, how many times your DC has been an altar server, whether your other children go to Sunday School etc and then start allocating places on that basis.

If you have only now become aware of the weekly attendance for 5 years criteria, you need to ask school admissions or the LEA where that is confirmed in writing and get a copy of it. If it isn't published, they can't use it.

Thank you all so much. You are keeping me sane!

Here is a case where a faith school breached the code by not being specific:

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/294967/ada2557_archbishop_blanch_liverpool_29_nov13.pdf

But agree: PM prh or admissions as they have offered. Both know loads!

There is a box on the application form for pattern of attendance. The vicar confirms this on their form. We don't see what the vicar writes but apparently others do.
No where is it written down what is considered in terms of attendance or involvement. I know what was considered this year as I have emailed questions.
I wrote fortnightly as I didn't want to lie. At Xmas we went more often. We did the bloody crib service at the vicars request. Wrote, organised, the lot!

Why do you not see what is written on the supplementary form by the vicar? Who is responsible for returning that form to school - surely not the vicar?

Yes it is the vicar. She doesn't let anyone see what she wrote

Thanks tiggytape

If it isn't mentioned it CANNOT be used

They appear to mention faith criteria but the published information is not very clear about how this works. That means, in my view, that they are in breach of the Admissions Code but not in a way that prevents them using the faith criteria. This is not as clear cut as something that isn't mentioned at all. Here we have something that is mentioned but is not described in detail.

However, as I said, 5 years is excessive and the more I think about it the more I suspect that it has not been applied consistently and fairly.

They seem to then set the criteria given the number of applications they have

They are definitely not allowed to do that. They must set the criteria before anyone applies and stick to them.

Theworldisfullofidiots - Please PM me the name of the school and LA involved so that I can do some digging on your behalf.

prh47bridge I've pmd you and thank you.

Thanks. I've taken a look. I will PM you some more detailed thoughts shortly.

The notes to the admission criteria state that applicants need to give the parents' attendance and involvement for at least five years, with separate forms for previous parishes if necessary. So that is not something they have just made up. However, the note then goes on to suggest that the school uses this information to assess commitment to the church. That is not good enough. There needs to be a clear, objective measure stated in the admission criteria that is used to determine whether or not you meet the requirements for priority on faith grounds. As written this allows the school to make it up as it goes along.

The other thing I would say, looking at the admission criteria, is that it should be a straight judgement as to whether or not someone qualifies for the faith category. They should not be using the extent of parental commitment to determine priority. Either you qualify or you don't. If you qualify and a tie breaker is needed they should be using distance. There is no evidence to say they have got that wrong but it may be worth checking.

Thanks. We have been going to our current church for 15 years. The number of year criteria has always been clear. The rest not.

Just wanted to say thank you. We have decide to move forward with tge appeal and see how we get on.

Hi theworld, not sure if I mentioned this before, but I drew up our appeal docs a few ywars ago using the book 'How to Win Your School Appeal' which I found really useful in terms of structuring the appeal, using the most appropriate language and making sure every angle was covered; it was invaluable. As were PRH and Admissions who kindly gave their time to look over the docs and offer advice. Good luck with the appeal!

Thanks. I'll have a look for it.

Just an update. Had a call from the school. They made a mistake with our place on the waiting list. We are 3rd, not 26th.

That's good news.

Now you need to find out whether there is any chance that mistake cost you a place. If you are number 3 on the waiting list, is it possible places 1 & 2 were late applications, or have only just asked to go on the waiting list, and that you would have initially qualified? You need very clear information from the school what category/criteria you were ranked under and what category/criteria they offered up to.

That's good.

I wouldn't mention this in your appeal document but I would be very tempted to mention it in the hearing because it shows confusion on their part. If they can get this wrong it adds to the doubt as to whether they have administered admissions correctly

A they have given you a definitive position on the waiting list I would keep a close eye on what happens. If a pupil admitted under category 4 pulls out they should put all the pupils on the waiting list who qualify for category 4 and are from the leaving pupil's area into a hat and hold a fresh random draw to determine who gets the place. If they don't and your daughter is disadvantaged as a result that would be something else to add to your appeal.

Thanks. I was a bit in shock when the school called me.
If someone appeals and gains a place and someone pulls out and opens up a place, I presume the appeal person takes that place?

Appeals and the waiting list are separate. If someone wins an appeal they get admitted immediately. No need to wait for someone to pull out. However, once some people have been admitted via appeal the school don't have to admit anyone from the waiting list until they are below PAN again. So if there are 3 successful appeals no-one would be admitted from the waiting list until 4 pupils have pulled out.