Appeal advice

[Theworldisfullofidiots]

Our Ds didn't get into tge school we wanted and got the second choice. We are going to appeal on a number of grounds and then keep applying.
It is a faith school and his sister already goes. We are going to appeal on a number fo issues and was hoping for some advice from people who have appealed (particularly if you were successful) and anyone who has any knowledge. Thank you!

It's typically baptism and attendance.

Other things (unfortunately for OP that means most of the things on her list of her church activities) are not allowed to be counted (because having the time to do more for the church is more closely related to (and exclusionary of) specific demographics than straightforward attendance.

So when OP says she attends regularly for longer than the minimum period, that sounds good. But if regularly is once a month, and the faith criteria specifies fortnightly, then she might not qualify for the higher-ranked criteria

We applied under both church and sibling. Yes we did fill in an extra form and a supporting statement from the vicar. It was a strong statement according to her. On the admission criteria it just says worshipping member of c of e. It doesn't say how this is assessed. One of the questions I am going to ask is their methodology of assessment. It just says they will use the info to assess commitment in terms of time and involvement. The only clear criteria is involvement for full five years (which we meet). I am examining the school admissions code and I am going to challenge the waiting list...

Regularly would be fortnightly, sometimes weekly although in February for instance it was monthly because I was ill etc!

It just says they will use the info to assess commitment in terms of time and involvement

That is not good enough. The Admissions Code is clear that must be able to easily understand how faith criteria will be reasonably satisfied. This does not appear to meet that requirement.

I am examining the school admissions code and I am going to challenge the waiting list

There is no easy way to do this. If you appeal the panel can only decide whether or not to admit your son. They cannot change his position on the waiting list. You can challenge the school's admission arrangements through the Schools Adjudicator but that will take time. Even if the Adjudicator agreed with you, they wouldn't change the order of the waiting list. They would simply tell the school that their current admission arrangements are in breach of the Admissions Code and that they must change them.

Clarified with the school that they rank the places. Therefore both I and my vicar are mystified as I had the strongest application from our parish and I am lowest on the waiting list!

On the waiting list!

Did you not ask them what category your application was placed in?

As so often, I agree with prh.

Ranking the church affiliation places on the school's subjective judgement (as appears to be the case) is far too woolly. You have a case to argue here that the admissions arrangements are unreasonable because they are not objective enough to be consistent with the Admissions Code.

Therefore both I and my vicar are mystified as I had the strongest application from our parish and I am lowest on the waiting list

That is grounds for appeal.

If you would like to PM me the name of the school and the LA I may be able to give more detailed advice.

OP

The experts on here are very good and discreet and one has offered to help you by PM, I would definitely do that as "by feel" is not good enough!

OP, you really need to get some very clear information on how exactly this process is working. WHO told you the school rank the applications on "feel"?! This seems completely bizarre and there has to be some kind of ranking criteria. Many schools rank on the basis of the supplementary form information only and e.g. for our local Catholic school, this relates only to church attendance with different tick boxes for weekly/monthly/occasional attendance. It doesn't matter how many choirs you run, or how many times you do the flowers, that doesn't count. The reasoning behind that is that many people are not in a position to do those extras because of shift work, disabilities, caring responsibilities etc and should not be penalised for that. Attendance at services is the basic requirement for calling yourself a member of that faith and parish, so only attendance is ranked.

When you say they rank the places, are you now talking about the waiting list? As this is a secondary school, there should be somebody specifically tasked with managing admissions and you need this person to clarify (preferably in writing) exactly how the ranking is determined and how you have ended up in your current position.

One thing that I'm not sure was asked or answered is whether this school has feeder schools and if your child attended one of these? If there are feeder schools, you may have ended up in a lower category even with your church attendance.

I'm still not convinced that there hasn't been some mistake here and that you haven't been mistakenly placed in the wrong category. I know you didn't want to identify the school but there are some very knowledgeable admissions experts on here, one of whom I'm sure would have a look at the admissions criteria if you sent them to them by PM.

I am a new member so please be gentle with me .

I have joined on the advice of some of my lovely virtual friends over at Gransnet with the hope of getting some good advice from anyone who can help please. Basically my son and daughter in law and their 3 children moved home over a year ago. The reasons for the move were a nicer area, a bigger house and easier for me and other grandma to provide ongoing childcare etc. We tried and failed appeals to get the children into the local primaries meaning that the children face very long commutes to school via public transport and are often late. Additionally the knock on effect of failure to get into a feeder is that eldest granddaughter (now 11) has been refused a place in the secondary school she can almost see from her bedroom window. I am told that the main reason for the failure to get a place is that the secondary has filled up with sibling link children and those from the feeder primaries (one of which is so far away from the fed secondary that they bus the children in every day)leaving no places for any other children ,even those like my granddaughter who live very close by. The LEA have subsequently offered her a place at a (particularly bad) school that is miles away from home. Granddaughter is distraught and has convinced herself that the schools beside where she lives don't want her. She has said that she "can't see the point in continuing to work hard at school" and "hates her life" All of these things worry me so much but having been through the appeals process (primaries) I wonder how realistic the hope of winning a secondary school appeal would be? Can the LEA really expect a (small for age) 11 year old girl to travel a long distance alone, using 2 buses and a long, lonely wait in between Any advice would be gratefully received. Thank you.

Gillybob

Probably better to start your own thread in this section to get personalised support, good luck

prh's support, advice and insight was probably the reason we decided to appeal (upheld) for DS's high school place a couple of years ago, as we believed an error had been made, and he supported this view. It gave us the confidence to proceed.

If he's offering to look into your case, definitely take him up in it!

I have pmd admissions.
I have subsequently found out the admissions criteria used by the admissions panel. Weekly attendance for 5 years.
This is not on the information given to parents. I might have to suck it up on this bit.

If that is not mentioned in the admissions information, I would think the school has made an error. And do they expect the churches to keep a proper record, or rely on the minister's memory?

This is not on the information given to parents

If that isn't on the information they circulate there is reason to complain. It means they fail to meet the requirement of making it clear to parents how they qualify under faith criteria. However, I'm afraid that won't win your appeal. Five years is a little excessive but, provided they have implemented that requirement consistently, they have not done anything wrong.

Grandmagillybob

How long does the journey take? If the journey is more than 3 miles the LA must provide free transport. Are they doing so? And, if so, do they simply provide a free bus pass?

If the journey takes more than 1hr 15mins each way it may be possible to win an appeal on the basis that the journey is unreasonable. If it is less than that it is harder but, if the only option is public transport and the LA is not providing any alternative, an appeal panel may be sympathetic to the view that expecting an 11yo to undertake a journey involving a change of bus and a long wait is unreasonable.

If it isn't mentioned it CANNOT be used. That is very clear grounds for appeal.

If the requirement is for weekly attendance for five years, then that should be made clear on the admissions criteria. Are you saying that it isn't? If it isn't clear, it must certainly be made clear on the supplementary form, otherwise how can the vicar know whether he should sign or not? Is he signing on the basis of whether he vaguely recognises faces or not?

I'm not sure what you mean by sucking it up? You say you attended regularly, would you meet the weekly attendance for five years? Even if you didn't, the vicar signed the form for you so your application must have been treated as if you did meet the criteria. The admissions panel act on the information in front of them, in your case that you were a regular attender as defined by their criteria. So unless ALL places were filled by regularly-attending siblings, then it seems that you should most likely still have got a place.

I don;t know enough to give any official advice but weekly attendance for 5 years sounds very unreasonable to me. I attend church more or less weekly but I will miss weeks if I am away on holiday or ill - I can't think of anyone at any church I have been to that has made it every single week and I am including the ministers in that.

If they are listing that as a criteria then if it is applied fairly then there will be very, very few children that get in on that criteria, if it is more than 2-3 children I would doubt they have followed their own criteria to the letter.

Hmm.

It may not be the same school but a quick Google has found one that the vicar must initial with respect to number of times attended a year, for five years, with an explanation if some years are different to others.

It's clear on the form though.

What a long time!

The school says - commitment and involvement. They seem to then set the criteria given the number of applications they have. I've compared it to a number of other c of e schools who are v clear about what regular attendance means.
It's frustrating that no where is it published that it is weekly attendance for 5 years.

Oddboots there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that a fair amount of applications were 'massaged'. Probably unprovable though