DS's A level choices - your opinion please

[chococupcakes]

Hiya Mumsnetters,

My son has opted for the following if he stays at his current school:

History
Psychology
Chemistry
Politics

Definitely a humanities kid and loves essays. The aim is a Russell group uni such as Oxbridge or Durham. He has no clue career wise what he wants to do and wishes to study History or History and something else (History and Politics for example). He also loved the sound of economics but mention maths and watch him coil.

Here are my issues:

1. I would prefer if he did at least one year of Maths even if he were to drop it after the first year to open up his options. To be able to do History and Economics, for example. or Philosophy, Politics and Economics. He may just scrape an A* in maths.

1. Psychology is being offered for the first time and so has no history of success.

1. The world is going so tech and so I cannot see how these subjects which although he adores can help him much for the future. He doesn't want to be a lawyer.

1. It's no point getting them to do subjects which they hate is always the advice as they won't do well in it.

Grrr...parenting!

Any advice would be most appreciated. We have a small amount of time left to change.

Thank you for reading.

My dd got 5 offers, 4 Russell Group with English, Philosophy and Theatre Studies.

I did English, History and Chemistry A level many years ago and regretted either doing more sciences / maths to go with the chemistry or another humanity- the chemistry sat awkwardly with the others.

He doesnt know what he want to do yet and ideas can change a lot in 6th form. My own view is that anyone capable of taking maths should do so as it's a facilitating subject for just about every degree. If you have aptitude getting an A* is more certain than in other courses - but you need to be prepared to work. If he struggled there are lots of online resources and the more able pupils can be involved in tutoring others. Maths is so often taught badly that students are often put off when they should be encouraged to continue.

If he did psychlogy and liked it the degree is a very popular choice as it's science lite with transferable skills. Maths is needed for the best courses.

There can be quite an overlap between history and politics, depending on the exam board, probably why Cambridge arent so keen on History and politics at A level - bit like maths and further maths overlapping.

History is actually a good degree choice as it's quite an analytical subject. At Cambridge the history students are wined and dined by law firms almost as much as the lawyers.

Whatever he does at A level for the best courses he will need to start planning extra work to show commitment, difficult when not sure what you want to do.

although I haven't done this course I have done another future learn course and would recommend it - so perhaps something like this would help him explore possibilities www.futurelearn.com/courses/politics-of-economics

I would switch politics and psychology to something more academic personally. He can study both later if necessary.
For a levels I would be suggesting more core subjects. He sounds bright so switching to a language if he likes humanities might be a good option.

Chemistry is a good subject to add to the mix as it shows one's breadth and depth of knowledge and ability. It goes well with psychology should he decide to study this at uni.

With mostly essay based subjects, it's good to choose a non essay and science based subject.

Don't do maths if you don't love it - so many fail to progress after year 12.

DD is doing only one facilitating subject and has an Oxbridge offer in that subject, and four other offers from other Russell Group Universities. Obviously it's not a science.

If he wants to study history, then look at what the history courses he likes suggest, and go from there.

There would have been shrieks of horror on MN had I asked whether Art&Design was a good choice for Oxbridge;

Not from anyone who'd read the trinity list. It's clearly there on list B.

DS3 I would have been told that Physics didn't 'go' with his other choices

Which would have been daft, as it goes very well with geography. The humanities don't generally 'go' with the sciences, for science/eng it's much more vital to do 3 relevant subjects, but the sciences can 'go' with humanities.

Agree a relevant EPQ can be a good idea, if it's not overdoing the workload - something that demonstrates the student's independent interest in their chosen field.

Errol I think the list you refer to (as well as the Russell Group's Informed Choices), postdates DD2's application and therefore I stand by what I said. I've certainly seen gulps of horror expressed in word form on MN since then, at the idea that an Oxbridge applicant might take Art&Design as one of three A levels. I don't think smelling salts are, or were, required for Art&Design as a fourth subject, but certainly they are, or were, as one of three.

With the caveat that I know remarkably little about the Physics and Geography syllabuses, why do you say that they go together so well? Perhaps they do, but I can't see it myself, not at A level.

I first saw that trinity list on MN quite a few years back but maybe not that long ago, guessing your kids minimum ages.

The geography/physics thing - while many details of of the physics a level syllabus would (I guess) be irrelevant to geog, for someone wanting to go for the more physical/geological aspects of geology then some scientific understanding of the material world presumably is? I know someone who recently finished a geog degree at Cambridge- she did geog, eng lit, maths and physics to AS, and then asked some admissions tutors which 3 she should carry on to A2. She was advised to drop either the english or - get this - the geography, not the maths or physics. The point being, the contents of the geog A level weren't really important, she'd be studying the subject in depth there, either eng or geog would provide essay/analysis skills. (She's just got her first paper published, it's a statistical analysis of data.... maths esp the bloody stats really is useful in a lot of fields)

Just getting back to the OP for a minute... having just got to the usefulness of maths, some kids who are quite good at maths are bored senseless by gcse but find it a lot more interesting at A level. Sure, conversely some who can do it at gcse struggle at a-level ... wouldn't push it if he really hates it but might just be worth a little probing what he dislikes?

You were working backwards from a geography degree then Errol, which throws up a rather different angle, although I completely see the sense in that situation.

It is true that you can't go wrong with Maths, provided you can do it.... But presumably it's not on OP's DS's list for a reason and this is what tends to happen on these threads - DC narrows their preferences, then MN suggests a completely different set! There's a great deal of merit in doing what you fancy for a degree such as History - it allows far more freedom at A level than many of the sciences.

My advice to students has for a long time been:

1. If capable of Maths A level, do it. If in doubt, avoid.
2. If choosing a standalone science, be careful. I've seen far too many students fail in a standalone science, and Chemistry was by far the worst for this. It's a huge jump from GCSE. Not read the thread carefully but why not Eng Lang rather than Chem?

Really should have said if capable of Maths, do it, even if you can't see the immediate relevance to what you plan to study at University.
There will always be relevance in later life. Plus, it's confirmation of cleverness.

probably why Cambridge arent so keen on History and politics at A level

although oddly is quite happy to make offers for History to DC who are doing / have done these subjects at A level

Nonetheless, the only facilitating subject for History is history, right?

Correct!

Economics is as well regarded as Chemistry yes. Politics not quite as much but ok and supports history. Biology is a better one to go with Psychology by the way, not Chem, although irrelevant to OP.

Agree Maths, at least to AS is always useful! Check syllabus though as there's a big jump from iGCSE (I assume as you've said Astar not 8 or 9) to A level.

There will always be relevance in later life. Plus, it's confirmation of cleverness.

How snobby.

It's a confirmation of maths ability. Plenty of people are clever without the ability to solve differential equations.

Sounds like dds option. She too is an essay based kid. However her teachers tried to push her to do maths because they said doing all essay based subjects can be hard work with the amount of essays they need to do. Nevertheless dd ignored their advice and is currently doing English, history and Religious studies (could only choose 3) and she finds it stressful doing 3 essay based subjects as she constantly has essays to do! And she has multiple teachers for English and history (how it's taught at her school) so do bear that in mind. Maths might be a good option to relieve him of the essays and if he's good at it why not.

My only other thought on this Maths dilemma is that now 3 A levels from Y12 is becoming more standard, is that universities may need to change their position for potential students wishing to take numerate degrees e.g. Economics, Pyschology, Biochemistry, Biology and Chemistry who don't have A level or AS level Maths. This could be taking a maths course containing the relevant Maths needed for that subject in their first year.

Chemistry is a really really hard A-Level. Psychology and Politics are not facilitating subjects as already mentioned. Psychology (reformed) has even more maths than before. How about English Lit (facilitating) or Classical Civilisation (not facilitating but works well with History and has similar assessment objects eg evaluation)? What is his GCSE results profile?

Is the jump from IGCSE to A level Maths bigger than the GCSE/A level jump Titchy? Asking purely out of interest as have no dc interested in doing maths a level! But had always slightly thought igcse maths was slightly harder - is this not the case?

One thing that occurs to me reading this, and the discussion of facilitating/preferred/list X, Y, this that and the other, is that it is not surprising that some dcs still don't do the 'right' combos for universities - with so many subjects available and 'lists', it is by no means easy for them to work out what universities really want. Ok dcs should be using a bit of their own initiative to research it, but they're making the choices at the same time as contending with mocks, real GCSEs etc, so not that easy.
Would be interesting to know how much this is a factor in the differential rates of success in applying to 'top' universities.

Oh gawd, struggling to pick out the general gist!

@goodbyestranger: Wow, some awesome points there thank you. We seemed to have skipped over the EPQ.

DECISION MADE:

History is his first choice and he has just confirmed that Psychology is his second, to be studied at either Oxbridge or Durham. I think (and a massive think as so much to go through) the general advice is for him to do what he loves and that Oxbridge demands it anyway. Although physics is on his love list, without Maths it would be a challenge (not sure if his school will allow it anyway). He is a bit of a one trip pony and the love list is not particularly extensive.

For Psychology, he will need a science or maths (albeit it appears that for Cambridge that would need to be biology which is not on his 'love list' or even 'like' - great eh!?).

He will stick with original choices as only History is required for history it seems. Immediately after GCSE's he will start the extra work required to impress Oxbridge. On Monday he will defo look more into the EPQ.

Viola!

You have all been amazing, thank you:)

If he did psychlogy and liked it the degree is a very popular choice as it's science lite with transferable skills.
Just wanted to pick up on this. This is not forcibly true. I studied Psychology that was part of the School of Sciences and as such, had to study 5 other science subjects and Maths. Believe me, Neuropsychology wasn't very 'lite' and as matter of fact was a class we took along side medical students!

Able students are recommended to do english/maths A level. Personally I would avoid an 'ology' with the exception of biology. I did maths, physics and chemistry a level and found chemistry the easiest of the three.

One problem is that it's not always easy to know if you are 'able' at maths in A level terms, before you start. Anecdotally you hear of people who found maths quite easy at GCSE, got A*, but then found that they had reached their 'limit' at A level and didn't do particularly well (to put it mildly). I've heard the same can happen between the old AS and A2.

That doesn't seem to be so much the case with some other subjects.

Chemistry is hard, and doesn't really compliment the other subjects, but on its own won't be enough for further study in sciences. It seems a bit pointless as the only Science.