DS's A level choices - your opinion please

[chococupcakes]

Hiya Mumsnetters,

My son has opted for the following if he stays at his current school:

History
Psychology
Chemistry
Politics

Definitely a humanities kid and loves essays. The aim is a Russell group uni such as Oxbridge or Durham. He has no clue career wise what he wants to do and wishes to study History or History and something else (History and Politics for example). He also loved the sound of economics but mention maths and watch him coil.

Here are my issues:

1. I would prefer if he did at least one year of Maths even if he were to drop it after the first year to open up his options. To be able to do History and Economics, for example. or Philosophy, Politics and Economics. He may just scrape an A* in maths.

1. Psychology is being offered for the first time and so has no history of success.

1. The world is going so tech and so I cannot see how these subjects which although he adores can help him much for the future. He doesn't want to be a lawyer.

1. It's no point getting them to do subjects which they hate is always the advice as they won't do well in it.

Grrr...parenting!

Any advice would be most appreciated. We have a small amount of time left to change.

Thank you for reading.

A Psychology degree is maths based, but the A level isn't.

Psychology may not be facilitating but it's fascinating; Dc studying it in Y11 at the moment and I'm loving getting into all the different theories and texts.

@Bluntness: I hear you, it was as I said, to give him more options at Uni.

@Twistme: Yes, I adore this subject myself for your reasons.

@TeenandTween: MFL, hates languages. Another one he is counting down to finish. I agree with the Eng Lit and mentioned this to him. Once again, he coils. He has really gone with what he loves. Ideally, would have done physics as adores this more than Chemistry. Have heard from too many sources to mention, however, that without maths, at this level it would be tough. From the school included.

@Mathsy: Hmm I hear you. Thanks for the feedback. He really doesn't want to do it however and so will take your and other's comments on board.

@Boys3: Thx so much again. Awesome advice too. I could be going potty, however, the plan is to just drop one subject after the first year. To start with four and drop one I thought was the norm unless you really wanted to do four. They all start with four in his school and some of the grammar's I noticed and drop one. All what he has chosen is what he loves (except chemistry which he neither loves nor hates). He likes it best out of the other facilitating subjects. Did your boy at Oxford do English Lit?

@Purple: Hmmm I SO get that. And agree! I must find out if the would even let him without Maths. What percentage of your pupils who didn't do Maths still get A*'s?

@Tween: Without the chemistry or similar he would only have one facilitating. He needs two. Chemistry he neither loves nor hates.

@Donthate: If he was hoping for an A*/A could this be achieved without doing Maths in your opinion?

Just to mention he is predicted and can potentially (all things being equal and sheer HARD work) of bringing in 10*'s. Some will be more of a breeze than others.

Purple, I can't recall, a Cambridge article or something - it said something like, whilst FM is not officially required, all our successful applicants last year offered it. So strong hint to do FM, I think? Don't most physics courses prefer it?

Purple: Hmmm I SO get that. And agree! I must find out if the would even let him without Maths. What percentage of your pupils who didn't do Maths still get A's?*

It's difficult to give a percentage because most students who like physics like maths as well. If you want to do physics at university you have to have maths. The ones that don't have to work harder because they're not getting the extra practice in maths (there's a lot of crossover) but it is perfectly possible to do well without maths a level if you know you're going to have to compensate with extra work.

rask while further maths is a small advantage when you're starting your physics degree, it's not necessary to get on to a top physics course. The uni runs catch up lectures to cover the extra content that's not been done at a level. I didn't have further maths, most of my students who go off to study physics don't have it. While I think it's clearly the best, physics definitely isn't the only science. Most biology students won't have a level maths, let alone further maths.

I'd say if he can start 4 subjects he definitely should - with those choices there is a chance that he finds the jump to A level too much for chemistry, or that it turns out he doesn't like the psychology or politics as much as he anticipates. Back in the day most people only did 3 but there wasn't the same range of subjects - nowadays starting 3 if one or more is new subject for them seems quite risky.

Rask - its a bit OT, and don't want to derail from the OPs questions too much, but something similar pertains for FM with good engineering courses - its not a requirement (because not all kids get the chance to do it) but its definitely desirable, and the thing that convinced DD was advice I got from an eng. academic on MN that its a really good idea to have done it at school so you don't have to spend time in the first year catching up (in some cases self-teaching). Also, you will sometimes see people saying fm is only acceptable as a fourth subject - this is true for some subjects but not for eng. and physics anywhere she looked at.

chcoc yes English Lit and ClassCiv at A2.

Worth saying he did these when full AS was still in place, so started with 4 and then dropped to three subjects in Y13. Whatever one thinks of the old system, it did allow for more trial and error in Y12

Why is the plan to drop one? The gradual introduction of the new linear courses means that more and more, students are having to commit to their A Level choices for the two years as we did back in the day. So I am not sure of the logic of starting a subject with the intention of dropping it at the end of the L6 with nothing to show for that year's study on paper.

Thanks Purple and Errol. She is interested in physics but not maths, which could be a problem. Sorry OP for derailing.

rask there's so much maths in a physics degree it feels like you're studying maths for the first year! You need it as a foundation for the rest of it but if you're not a lover of maths definitely not one to pursue. Good luck to her, whatever she ends up doing.

Honestly, if He doesn't like maths he's doubtful to be doing a degree that requires maths at uni. In addition if he's going to drop it it basically becomes irrelevant as uni offers done on a level, plus not having that fourth subject allows him to focus more on the three others. He doesn't need to do four and unless taking it to full uni or he's really confused on a couple of subjects and what to do, he should just do three.

At dds sixth form they do let high fliers i.e. those with mostly As take 4 subjects in Y12. You can still take a stand alone AS level at the end of Y12, it just doesn't count towards the mark at the end of Y13 anymore. Many sixth forms do structure the new linear courses so this is still possible - others don't though!
I think that Psychology does count as a Science subject for A level but one where there are essays if that makes sense.
There is some Maths in A level chemistry, but if he is good enough at Maths to obtain A (or number equivalent) at GCSE, he should easily be able to cope with the Maths needed.
I would look further into the Economics option, although not a facilitating subject, it's still fairly highly regarded. (You don't need Maths for Economics A level but it may be an advantage for economics degrees iyswim).

I think worrying about employability is a red herring. Not everyone in the world is in a STEM-related job or a lawyer. There are all sorts of jobs that require analytical thinking - business consultancy, advertising, teaching, Human Resources, people who work for car manufacturers and biscuit manufacturers and run large retailers and who produce TV shows and design historical interpretations for sites and run cleaning companies and who are simultaneous translators and diplomats and spies and work for the police force. You don't need to study an A-level you don't enjoy.

Psychology is seen as a soft subject. Silly bcs it's hard, but the truth.

Let him do what he likes. He's clearly smart, and he'll work harder on the things he cares about. It's not good preparation for uni to have these choices made for you.

I don't think Geography has been mentioned yet. It's a facilitating subject, halfway between sciences and arts. Would he consider that?

For the likes of Oxbridge, the message seems to be that you have to be really, really keen on your subject. What is he going to do that is above and beyond - EPQ? Will doing breadth (four subjects) hamper him from doing depth.

Psychology is fine to do without maths, but economics at degree level wouldn't be, especially at Oxford or Durham, where it's a requirement for entry.

Chemistry is pointless here. I'm not sure you understand the reasoning behind two facilitating subjects - they are simply subjects that you NEED in order to do certain degree subjects. So having chemistry is only facilitating if considering a science degree. It does not facilitate a History degree!

Economics would be a good fit instead, although without Maths an economics degree is unlikely, but would be a good fit for History.

If you're using 'facilitating' as a shorthand for well-regarded, the Trinity list is much better:
https://www.trin.cam.ac.uk/undergraduate/applying/a-level-subject-combinations/

Chemistry is an excellent choice of subject including for a history degree and no, that's not a cross post :)

Not sure why you say chemistry is 'pointless' in this context, titchy. If other history course requirements are in line with the famous trinity list, then for a history degree history is the only specific requirement, the chemistry would be fine as an a1/a2 choice, the psychology ok as a list b choice for the 3rd subject...politics seems to be missing which may be accidental .

The chemistry in that combination isn't really 'facilitating' in that combination as it is unlikely to be specifically required alongside any of the others for any course but it is, shall we say, 'enabling' as a recognised rigorous subject,as part of an offer.

@titchy @goobye and @errol~

Thanks for your feedback. Just to clarify, is the table and are you all saying that chemistry and economics are of equal weight? Hmm but economics without Maths (even though not being studied at uni not a disaster but not great either I believe).

@titchy: thx for claryfying facilitating. I had got into a pickle with that. Nonetheless, the only facilitating subject for History is history, right?

Odd that Politics is not there. It's a highly regarded subject is it not?

Thanks again

@senua: No, doesn't love Geog:(

@LittleGywn: Yes, he loves the idea of Psychology. It is indeed ultimately his decision, however, as a family we do discuss. Further, my nephew picked his all by himself, took poor advice and made a pigs ear of his decisions.

@Daphne: Thx

OP I'm not sure if it helps but of my three DC who went to Oxford recently to read History:

DD2 took History, English and Art&Design at A2, with French to AS.
DS2 took History, English and Geography at A2, with Maths at AS.
DS3 took History, Physics and Geography at A2 , with English at AS.

There would have been shrieks of horror on MN had I asked whether Art&Design was a good choice for Oxbridge; I'd bet good money that the overwhelming response would have been to keep on the French (she also got an offer from Durham, did a Masters at Oxford and is now doing a funded PhD), and for DS3 I would have been told that Physics didn't 'go' with his other choices and was anyhow impossible without Maths. A great deal of advice on MN is very valuable and has been of great personal value to me, but the best advice on these threads for tolerably sensible DC wanting to do a humanities subject is to do exactly what they're best at, alongside their degree subject of choice. Chemistry is an excellent choice, given how it teaches a student to think - to my mind a very good substitute for Maths, if his preference is Chemistry.

It's fair to say they also all did an EPQ - is that a possibility? A History based EPQ with a political/ psychological bent? And ditch the fourth A2?

Nothing wrong with saying he might scrape an A* in Maths - not sure why you got a biscuit!

And also, I suppose the only thing I'd be wary of is the newness of the subject at your DS's school. Do you know the teacher who will teach him? Are they in post for this year? Are they thought to be good?

Sorry! That was re Psychology (I guess rather obviously, but even so :)).