This year's GCSE maths.....

[BertrandRussell]

My ds's maths teacher has just told me that the 7000 odd schools that did the new maths GCSE as mocks recently achieved a modal score of 11% for paper 1. 11% ? Surely not!!!!!!

"Isn't the answer to teach how to answer 'wordy' questions. Isn't that how people talk in real life. Isn't that how problems exist in real life?"

The point is that children from more privileged backgrounds know this stuff already. And no, it isn't how problems exist in real life.

And even if it was, often these exams are just means to ends-^particularly for the D/C kids.

Applying knowledge to solve problems is much more difficult that just regurgitating. When you can solve/analyse real life problems you understand your subject thoroughly, so I can see why they have introduced more of these questions. I was never taught to apply my knowledge enough - - I did a year abroad at Uni and the University was particularly keen on applying knowledge and I was completely screwed.
I'm not denying that the style of language isn't problematic but I support teaching kids to apply their knowledge to real life situations. My kids are struggling with it but it's a skill that I feel is worthwhile developing.

no, it isn't how problems exist in real life
I would disagree with that point but probably agree that exams are a mean to an end. What end? Maybe its just pointless some kids taking these exams? Maybe they will never need the skills taught in a Maths A-level. Do we really need so many children going to university? Probably not.

The ones in 1950s and 60s a bit different me thinks.

I've got an old slim test Papers in Arithmetic book from 1974 which explicitly divides the tests into not-wordy A papers and wordy B papers e.g.

Type A: 3741 x 13

Type B: It is now 12 noon on Monday. I set my watch right by the wireless, but I know it will gain 2 minutes every four hours. What time will my watch show at midnight by the wireless on Tuesday?

If you 'internationalised' some of the paper B questions, changed John to Juan, they are near-identical to some PISA questions. The part I don't understand is that PISA is dripping with touchy-feely progressive ideology to the extent that in some of their key messages are in direct opposition to what their own data demonstrates, but they're the ones with wordy questions and they're clearly one quite significant influence on that aspect of the nuGCSE.

By the 1970s things had moved on a bit in exams. With the advent of comprehensives the exam system began to evolve into the GCSE rather than a GCE formally for grammar schools and the CSE for secondary. Even a new maths system came into play. So you cannot really compare back then to now, though I will say that disadvantaged children then were worse off educationally than today even though today's divide is bad enough. Also the universities have had a hand in changing GCSEs because they were fed up with the drop in standards mainly due to the fact that pupils were resitting willy nilly just to get the results they wanted.

I wonder how you apply Elaborated language code when your gas and electricity meters have run out and you have no money to put in them? That is a real life problem for many people. What analytic skills should they use?

It is really interesting to see peoples varying thoughts on the new format of GCSEs. But it always the case there are lots struggling with it for various reasons. I have a high achieving gdd and a ggs a year younger who is struggling so much that he could not pick options in his school this year because if his literacy levels. He has to do maths and English but hasn't got a hope of getting a 4. He has support but they have not been able to get His reading up from an 8 year old. The waiting list for a proper diagnosis of his educational needs is long and he is one of many I the same boat in His school. His parents have lost Patience with the system and is going to send him to a new technical school in September where they feel he will do better. I feel that he has been failed by the education system. But, I suppose not everyone can be academic. But the thought that the old system of grammar, secondary school and technical schools is looming large on the horizon.

Round here practical skills are paid for handsomely. Plumbers, electricians, builders etc are very well off.
My brother left school barely able to write - he runs a very successful business now, he has a good practical problem solving brain. To specialise in his field he had to attend a two week training course - at nearly 30 years old it was first time in his life he ever really wanted to pass an exam.
My other brother failed in English GCSE, fortunately he was still accepted at a tech college for a Btec Engineering, he successfully passed the course and applied to Uni - fortunately his university accepted some of his Btec modules as proof that his English was sufficient for his engineering course. He learned how to write at work - he needed to, first time he really wanted to learn how to write a good letter. He copied other colleague's style until he felt confident to do it himself. He has a really good professional job but he has never passed his GCSE English. GCSE's and A levels are not the only route to success, there is life beyond them, they open doors but if they don't suit you, there should be alternatives.

Yes, and Alan Sugar left school at 14.

That is not how it is for the overwhelming majority of people. Most people are not driven self starters.

But what is wrong with a obtaining trade? University is not for everyone, and I don't mean that the clever kids go to Uni and the rest go to tech college to gain a trade. We need clever trades people too who can do their job properly.

Absolutely nothing wrong with gaining a trade. That's why I am always going on about the D/C boundary. Which is significantly more important for kids going into a trade than the A/A* one is for kids going to university. But which is it we focus on?

We focus on everyone! I know it sounds simplistic.....but fundamentally we should not to placing one group over the other...I know this is not how it works but it's how it should work.

That's the point betrand. Who do the educational system concentrate on? There is a need for the trades and that I don't dispute at all. Academics and high tech businesses need buildings and they need people to build them.(not a good example). But, in my day there were many children literally forced into technical schools because their academic abilities weren't top notch. It was a fact that the education system ignored them, no support was available like it is now. With funding cuts to schools the money to support the children who need extra help will be one if the first things to go and I don't want that to happen or we will have 14 year olds like my ggs being forced to go to techs because there is absolutely no other option for them in the education system.

Show me the Mumsnet threads about D/C borderline kids..........
Show me the threads fretting about the new GCSEs and their impact on 3/4/5 kids.

Totally agree Betrand and the rot is beginning again in the education system. The government is helping it on its way very nicely. If course Brexit will get the blame lol!

The new exams are even less fit for purpose than the old ones for foundation level students who are not going to get a 4/5.

I think a lot of people believe that ability is fixed and cannot be improved upon and this contributes to the problem - expectations are low for the 3/4/5 kids - they're not clever enough - nothing can be done to change that?

Well Teresa May did say she wanted to get our own workforce trained. So, cut funding to schools, make exams just for the top 20% of the country, bring back grammar schools and technical schools, set boundaries too high and wham! You get your skilled labour market all ready.

Do you honestly think that in 5 years time or so that a level 5 will be thought of as a good pass when they have levels 7,8 and 9 to choose from? (Sorry, its just the cynic in me).

Do you honestly think that in 5 years time or so that a level 5 will be thought of as a good pass when they have levels 7,8 and 9 to choose from? (Sorry, its just the cynic in me). I agree - Also when people say the pressure on the kids at the top end will be reduced because a 9 will be thought of as impossible is complete nonsense...I would expect the pressure will go up a few notches instead!

Theoretically the tack that's been taken here in Wales seems sensible. GCSE maths has been split in two, so there's GCSE numeracy, which everyone has to take, and GCSE maths, which they say 'most' pupils will take.

The aim I think is that 'numeracy' will cover the basic maths everyone needs in life, with 'maths' being the maths you need either to go on to further study or for more scientific/technical understanding.

As for how it will work out in practice, who knows, it's all a bit of an unknown right now.

Sadik - it sounds like a sensible approach.

If you drew a Venn diagram of 'wordy questions on the new GCSE' and 'questions testing real life applications of maths on the new GCSE' (which you can do as Venn diagrams are now back on the syllabus!) the intersection would be very small.

What maths GCSE has a lot of is contrived scenarios to make the question look 'real life' but which actually never occur in real life. Hannah's sweets would be a good example - no one has ever formed and solved a quadratic to find out how many sweets they have.

Let's not pretend that wordy questions on the GCSE are about improving knowledge of real life applications.

GCSE maths has been split in two, so there's GCSE numeracy, which everyone has to take, and GCSE maths, which they say 'most' pupils will take.

This is the approach to GCSE maths which has been advised to the government over and over by maths education experts. The report Michael Gove commissioned Carol Vorderman to put together (which was actually excellent) had this as a key recommendation. The approach isn't totally untested (unlike Gove's GCSEs), look up the Linked Pair pilot which ran for several years.

That's almost the same as having foundation and higher isn't it Sadik?and yes lottachocca the pressure for the top ones to get a 9 is horrendous. My gdd is striving all on her own to achieve them. We cannot afford private tutors. All her friends in her sets have either private tutors or professional parents, I.e teachers. To get those 9s people are resorting to tutors even though it us an outstanding school. We, on the other hand, rely solely on the great teachers to help her. But, at the end if the day my gdds friends will get to Oxbridge, my gdd may just miss it all through the lack of money. (Fingers crossed she might get there just through her sheer grit and determination, bless her).