Is igcse science a lot harder than GCSE science

[Worried61]

If a young person has studied GCSE science and got a d grade before. Will they have covered most of the igcse stuff

IGCSE Science is currently available to the comprehensive masses. I have taught them in a comprehensive, and DS is doing them in a comprehensive. I have also taught A level to students with both IGCSES and GCSEs. No disadvantage with IGCSE. Probably a starting advantage in A level Chemistry and Physics (although it evens out). The debate around the C/D borderline is irrelevant for Science A levels.

I generally think the AQA igcses (Certificates) are harder than legacy GCSEs. New single science GCSEs 9-1 will be considered same standards as AQA IGCSE.

I think the CIE IGCSE is harder than the AQA igcse. There is a big fuss about the presumed rigour of the 9-1 GCSEs. It's a matter of perspective. They are only harder because the content of GCSEs, since the Blair era, has been light.

Draylon* It also interests me how many people not paying for education like to believe that because the independent sector are doing it it must inferior and only being done because it's easier so their pupils will get better results.

It is easier to get a C in IGCSE which is why many state schools started to do them. The concept was that selective and private school had no issue with their pupils at C grade due to only taking capable children.
The government cottoned on to this and stopped IGCSE from being included in the league tables. IGCSE was set up for pupils abroad and the terminology is less complex hence lower ability pupils being able to access it.
Parents who pay like to assume IGCSE is better. Parents who don't like to think it is easier and gives an advantage. Both sets of parents are both right and wrong.
Personally I believe until 1 exam is sat by all pupils this argument is pointless.

I imagine top private schools will teach iGCSEs because they a) give the best results and b) fits in with their teaching style right up to A level. I certainly wouldn't expect a school that sells itself on results to purposely choose a more difficult option for their students. I would, however, expect the school to challenge more able pupils by exposing them to A level work during the iGCSE and not letting the curriculum limit them once they have reached an understanding equivalent to the top grade. I would also expect keen pupils in a super-selective school to skip past any difference in GCSE/iGCSE 'level' within the first five minutes of covering that curricula topic.

As I posted some time ago, my kids' school moved to IGCSEs in the maths and sciences years ago when GCSEs were modular and there was more coursework. They preferred a final exam structure as it they felt it better suited their students' needs. They do a mixture of GCSEs and IGCSEs according to the syllabus in each one and review the specs every year.

I'm not sure parents who pay "like to assume IGCSE is better" but I do think we get fed up of being told it's much easier and that independent schools only do it to make their results look good.

Blaeberry, in many highly selective schools the end game isn't the GCSE results but the university places, so courses are chosen to optimise those outcomes. I suppose it's possible that the school is lying to us about the reason for choosing its syllabuses and that we are all simply gullible because we are paying. On the other hand, it's possible that the school is telling us the truth and does pick by subject and specification to offer the best preparation in each subject for its students.

You are right in so far as the school is definitely teaching into A level territory before GCSEs where appropriate.

I don't really care whether IGCSEs are harder or easier or exactly the same. I only care that my children appear to be getting an extremely challenging and interesting education.

I firstly responded because of a previous poster's assertion that her daughter had told her that all the private school pupils had struggled at A level, which seemed not only an odd conversation to have (though I guess everyone's home life is different) but very unlikely to be true - unless those private school students were all the ones who'd been kicked out for not making the grade anyway or they weren't at very selective private schools or weren't particularly academic anyway.

My son is doing the AQA GCSE 9-1 Separate Sciences. I don't think they are hard enough. I am giving him stretch questions from CIE O level and CIE IGCSE questions to stretch him. School has acquiesced to this. I still think our science GCSEs are light, and they require use of everyday vocabulary rather than scientific terminology

ontop best preparation in each subject for what? For exams? For A levels? For getting into university? For marketing? For inspiring fascination in the subject? That doesn't rule out them choosing 'easier' courses. Indeed an 'easier' GCSE might allow more room to study specific things in more depth or add interest and challenge to their education, especially if the other option involves copious amounts of dull coursework. Or they might provide a more logical step onto A levels in the way the subject is taught. But I doubt the school would think 'let's do this exam because it will be harder for our students to get good grades.'

My daughter managed AS maths grade A having done IGCSE maths and the double award igcse science helped net her a medical school offer this year.

There are different Igcse boards. They're not all the same.

Of course, blaeberry, you're right in many ways about what it is preparation for. I think you're wrong though in that when you have lots of very able children, you're not worried about them not getting the top grade. You're choosing exams that you think will challenge your most able pupils. But we can disagree about that. As I say, maybe all the teachers are lying when they explain why they constantly review the courses.

However, specifically describing the Edexcel science course they've chosen as 'more rigorous and demanding' (though I guess it doesn't say than what) seems a clear statement. They are currently reviewing their Maths IGCSE in view of the new GCSE specification.

I probably have a similar experience to a previous poster in that I've seen GCSE study guides for by (one) of my friend's children compared to my son's IGCSE in sciences, and my son's covered more material. But that's one example so hardly robust.

Marketing isn't an issue for a lot of these schools. They never photograph their pupils jumping up and down with clutches of top grades or ask their pupils into school to receive results. They don't send out press releases. But that's another issue related to league tables.

I don't think you quite get what I am saying. I am not saying the schools are lying, I am saying that there are a number of reasons why one course may be more suitable than another which has nothing to do with which is perceived 'easiest'.

Of course these schools worry about marketing - they might not have full page advertisements in the local rag to attract enough students but they are still competing for the top flight students (and parents) and for the attention of their alumni who are normally a source of substantial funding.

Well, you must be alive to the possibility that they're lying if they say openly and directly that they have chosen the most challenging and rigorous courses and you say that you believe they choose courses that are easier to get good grades in. Both things can't be true. That's all.

Exams are just hoops to jump through. Clever students will do what is required and get the top grades regardless of the syllabus, make up of the exam etc. Less clever students will find them more challenging.

DS2's school doesn't publish its IGCSE results As and A*s at this level are a given. It does however publish its Pre U results.

The English igcse was definitely a lot easier than Aqa. I think the maths one was too. Gutted we can't still do it.

We always avoided igcse cos it supposed to be so much harder and were gobsmacked when we actually looked at it. Subsequently, all our lower sets were pulled from aqa and sat igcse. I didn't schools allowed to do them anymore-or I'd that only if they want it to count the bucket thing?

Historically (i.e. 7 -10 years ago) when selective private schools moved over to IGCSE maths and science courses it appears they were chosen because they were seen to be more challenging and rigorous. According to the links below, GCSE science was very 'dumbed down' a few years ago although I expect things have evened out now. I don't think the perceived easiness in obtaining a Grade C in English Language IGCSE has much relevance to IGCSE maths and science.

www.theguardian.com/science/2009/mar/27/gcses-science-dumbed-down

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/schools/the-appliance-of-real-science-should-all-children-take-the-igcse-2026801.html

"Parents at Parkside became even more alarmed when curriculum reform in the mid-2000s, ostensibly to make science more relevant and accessible, brought in a new emphasis on ethical issues, such as organ transplant and abortion. The new "tick-box" multiple-choice exams did not require pupils to write any scientific term or recall formulas, and led to widespread concern. A group of teachers took the unusual step of launching a Downing Street petition deploring the loss of scientific content."

"Even the official exam regulator, Ofqual, called on the exam boards to improve standards, arguing that questions about the advantages and disadvantages of CCTV, mobile phones and the internet were no substitute for the principles of physics."

"Under pressure from scientists and teachers, the Government ordered a report from its curriculum advisers. The report concluded in 2007 that the IGCSE should not be endorsed for the state sector because it was too difficult and was out-of-step with the national curriculum, covering material that had been moved over into the higher AS- level exam."

www.theguardian.com/education/2009/mar/04/private-schools-gcses-manchester-grammarschool

Martin Stephen, high master of St Paul's school in Barnes, west London, said: "The new GCSEs (2009) are appalling for the most able students. They are simply pap, they are baby food, they are examination rusks in too many subjects, and they do not stretch and challenge the most able." The school offers IGCSEs in maths, science and music and is considering expanding them.

I have one twin who took GCSE and one who took IGCSE.

Both went private.

The twin who took IGCSE went to a much more selective school that had no need to worry about grades or marketing.

The school chose it to avoid the endless modules that existed at the time and to expose pupils to that bit more science ( especially those who would not be taking them in sixth form).

It's sticking with IGCSE I believe whilst things bed down with the new changes.

Off topic on to maths slightly - my DH teaches maths at a selective private school where they do iGCSE. he brings home maths papers for my state educated son to do as revision (year 11). He routinely gets B to low A. In the new maths GCSE the poor soul is doing at his sate school, he is currently working at grade 5.

I think my husband's shock at the difference is a little more than anecdotal ...

I also myself teach a boy who is working at the 4/5 borderline in the new English GCSE. He sat iGCSE English via one of mummy's connections in November and got a 6. He is orally bright and fairly intelligent (very lazy!) but he CANNOT spell.

I am just hoping against hope for my own boy and the legions of children doing the new GCSEs in whatever kind of school that the grade boundaries are put in sensible places..

Science , I have no experience of, OP - sorry :)

I would also add that I teach A level English to students who have iGCSE English grades A and B and they are not suitable A level candidates, compared to those (form the same school) who got As and Bs in the old GCSE.

This may, of course, mean the issues lie only with English. The iGCSE has coursework and the exam is basically comprehensions. There's also a speaking and listening element.:all rather lovely.

Marketing isn't an issue for a lot of these schools. They never photograph their pupils jumping up and down with clutches of top grades or ask their pupils into school to receive results. They don't send out press releases

really?? the six private schools which dominate my town do!! Blonde girls with shiny hair and everything...