New grammars by 2020 which will exclude 90% of local kids

[noblegiraffe]

What an excellent use of scarce public funding, to build schools that most kids can't access instead of using it to build good comprehensives to improve the life-chances of everyone.

Word from the government (who appear to be ploughing ahead with the proposals before they've even published the consultation results) is that new grammars will only take the top 10% rather than the top 25% of kids. God knows where they've got the evidence that the top 10% of kids require a different school but they're certainly not sharing it with us.

It is also beyond me how making grammar schools even more elite will help with the promised social mobility agenda, when previous discussions were about how the pass grade would be needed to be lowered to increase the number of disadvantaged kids gaining access.

And if you were in favour of a grammar school opening in your area because you thought your kid would get in, how sure are you now? How much less tempting is a grammar school opening up if your kid is more likely to be sent to the other school?

In addition, expect to see furious threads in the near future from parents whose local school of choice has converted to a grammar and their kid is now being bussed to another school in the MAT that they wouldn't have chosen for them.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-38906594

Oh also, previously if you failed 11+ but excelled at your local secondary you could move to the local grammar at a later date. My understanding is that this is no longer the case.

I just looked up the code, tiggy which says if the school is undersubscribed they have to offer a place to any child who applies, unless it's a grammar.

Are there any undersubscribed grammars? They just fiddle the pass mark each year to get the right number of students, which in reality means accepting 'less able' students one year than the next/previous.

Tiggy
My point is that those are the only ones that have such a huge climate damaging catchment that they barely impact on local schools

the others are as Dandelion so eloquently described at 17:38

tiggy big assumption that that place in Y10 has been open since Y7 because not enough bright kids took the 11+. School populations are not static and there will always be places opening up.

In reply to an impassioned speech by Peter Hitchens, who asserted that all our grammar schools were heavily oversubscribed, I pointed out that nine Kent grammar schools had vacancies on allocation day in 2016, and that to the best of my knowledge all Kent children who had passed the Kent Test were offered a place at a Kent grammar school, if not the one of their choice.

From this source

www.kentadvice.co.uk/peters-blog/item/940-radio-kent-s-big-grammar-school-debate.html

Parents pay for buses to grammar schools not tax payers.

And sorry saving the environment is no argument against grammars. Not all of us are lucky enough to,live in the most expensive areas with the best schools. Parents will always commute if needs be. The fairest system would be a lottery system which would involve everybody doing a commute.

I doubt grammars would sit empty,they're underfunded as it is.

Interesting, HPFA I see they're all in a two tier system where the mark is set by the county not the school.

TAlkin Parts of NJ are urbanized. There is a whole lot more that isn't. There is also a good reason why I am very happy living in NJ. We pay more in taxes, $15k on our home for a start, so others less fortunate get access to basics such as a good education, healthcare and housing.

Also, you have pretty good provision all the way down the east and west coasts. My sister is going private out in Seattle because she is a snob. Truth be told the public, government funded school is better than the private school she and my BIL are paying for. Their kids would be better off in the local school but my sister doesn't want them hanging out with the 'wrong' type of kids

There are so many issues, education being one of them, with the middle of the country. It's what Trump played to why he won this last election.

Another interesting fact from the same source

nearly a third (31%) of children in Kent grammar schools are selected using Headteacher Assessment or appeals, where further evidence is considered.

Just like they say a developed country is where the rich use public transportation, I believe a developed country is where the rich use the state schools. In my town the private schools are struggling because everyone is using the state school. We are one of those families. We had a place for DD at a top tier private school before we came to our senses and realized what we were doing was really stupid.

Our wrap care is amazing with 22 free enrichment programs to choose from and costs $400 a year. During the week my DD is learning Spanish and Mandarin twice a week. The only aspect I am not happy with is the lack of sports. I don't have time for rec sports. DD does soccer and softball. She will be starting lacrosse next year. Each sport costs $50 a year and is run by the town using funds granted to the town from the state.

So the Kent test pass grade is deliberately set to underfill schools in order to leave places for appeals and Headteacher Assessment and the like, because they know the test doesn't work

507 students transferring from non-selective to grammar in the Sixth Form last year, forming an impressive 9% of the total cohort. This confirms that selection is not a one off decision for life and many late developers will benefit from the opportunity.

THEN WHAT IS THE BLOODY POINT OF SUCH DIVISIVENESS AND TIMEWASTING AGED 11?!!!

I'm not sure this link will work but try it:

www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/schools-by-type?step=phase&region=886&geographic=la&phase=secondary&for=Performance&basedon=Overall%20performance&show=High%20achievers%20at%20key%20stage%202&&schoolTypeFilter=allSchools&dataSetFilter=pro v

It's a list of Progress 8 results adjusted to show High Achievers only. You'll find as you work down the list that the grammars and secondary moderns become very mixed so there are plenty of secondary moderns doing better for High Achievers than many of the grammars. So yes, what's the point of introducing this mad system elsewhere?

I think Bucks has a Headteacher's appeal system too. But even if it is just Kent, that's nearly 25% of grammar schools..........

tiggytape Sat 11-Feb-17 12:52:59 so are all on their own and have no school support in in pursuing a different outcome.

I think you will find that the lack of support is down to the HT rather than there being any formal restriction on their ability to assist. However, happy to stand corrected on this if there is, in fact, a written document/statement that demonstrates otherwise.

Our local comprehensive offers diplomas, btec, learning support, help with finding apprenticeships, oxbridge tuition and 6 went to oxbridge last year. It's bloody brilliant.

The HeadTeachers appeals in Kent schools-and I think in Bucks too- take place without the parent's knowledge in the time between the results being known and the parents being informed.