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Secondary education

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Original poster

Is it normal to lose marks in a maths exam if you got a question right bu didn't show workings?

61 replies

GreenGinger2 · 07/02/2017 19:53

Dd got 3 questions right(fractions) but only half the marks in each because she didn't show her workings. Written on paper that this was the case.

Seems harsh.Confused

Dd has forbidden me from querying it with teacher (fierce) so won't be but would just like to know out of interest if this is the norm and the reason.

She did well but those 3 marks would have raised her percentage.

OP posts:
Ceaser1981 · 07/02/2017 20:33

Yeah it used to annoy me as they make you put all the workings down to show your thought process, that was 20 years ago so sounds like its the same rules

megletthesecond · 07/02/2017 20:34

Yes. Was the same in the 80's. Always had to show our workings.

lacebell10 · 07/02/2017 20:35

Has always been the same for the last 40 years at least. My dd had it drummed into her at primary from year 2. She definitely would have lost marks on her KS 2 paper if she didn't show working outs.

AllTheLight · 07/02/2017 20:35

Yes, this is normal at uni level too

karalime · 07/02/2017 20:48

Yep normal had this in A level physics and maths.

She is not 'losing' marks for not showing her working. Writing the correct answer gets some of the marks, showing how you did it gets the rest so if you don't do that you won't get the marks.

Conversely it also means if you get stuck or make a mistake you can still get some marks.

Bensyster · 07/02/2017 22:22

A level Applied Maths - we were never given the final answer when discussing in class - teacher wanted us to show him the method, our thinking...answers were the boring simple bit at the end - that's how he drilled it into us that writing the method down was the most important bit. And I really needed that discipline when applying Maths to my degree subject.

TeenAndTween · 07/02/2017 22:25

Yup. In my maths degree my director of studies told us 'don't worry about the 2s' (that you get when differentiating x^2 etc) as those were minor details compared with understanding the method.

OP. I struggled with this too at her age, but it is something she needs to get to grip with.

Original poster
GreenGinger2 · 08/02/2017 07:30

Any ideas on materials that help with this?Dd has to go over topics with lost points on My Maths which is great however it won't help to encourage her to write down workings.Confused

OP posts:
PurpleDaisies · 08/02/2017 08:02

Dd has to go over topics with lost points on My Maths which is great however it won't help to encourage her to write down workings

Can you ask the teacher to show her the mark scheme to prove that she has to show workings? To be honest I'm not sure what more encouragement is needed over and above the teacher saying you will lose marks if you don't show workings so you absolutely must do it (both in class and in the tests).

Badbadbunny · 08/02/2017 08:13

When she gets to do her GCSE (the new harder 9-1 version), there's no way she'll get the answers right without doing her workings line by line. Year 7/8 is very different as the questions are easy compared with the GCSE especially the higher level. No-one will be able to work out the volume and surface area of a cone in their head without doing it line-by-line.

Also, the new style of questions, such as Hannah's sweets which sent candidates into oblivion on social media a couple of years ago, where the question was not asking for answer, but to prove the answer - i.e. show the line-by-line workings.

There is also the issue of "cheating" by using modern calculators. For example, my son's school's approved calculator will solve a quadratic equation just by entering the equation into it. His teacher has made it perfectly clear that none of his class will get ANY marks in his tests etc if he doesn't see the line-by-line workings - that's no marks at all even if it's right! His instruction is for them to check their answer with the calculator once they've done it by hand.

Moonywormtailpadfootprongs · 08/02/2017 08:22

Isn't maths about the method more so than the answer?

As that's what is said to develop your reasoning ability or whatever maths is meant to help with I hated maths... even at uni

I'd always manage to get more marks for my formula usage than my answers... they were usually wrongGrin... wasn't great at the subject but got mostly Bs.

ImperialBlether · 08/02/2017 08:27

She needs to look at how it's marked. If she's told to show workings, then obviously that's got to happen (this might be on the front page of an exam paper or written next to the question.) Then if a question is for 2 marks, she will have to do at least 2 things to warrant those marks. You can't get 2 marks for just an answer - only one mark will be allocated for that.

eitak22 · 08/02/2017 08:28

Quite often on a mark scheme if a question is worth 4 marks, 2 will be for correct answer and 2 will be available for showing your workings for example. It seems like this is what has happened in your DDs case. If she wants the full marks from the questions then she needs to show her workings, best to start doing it in year 7 than having to start when it comes to GCSEs.

KarmaNoMore · 08/02/2017 08:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheCakes · 08/02/2017 08:36

Yes. You get marks for the process and marks for the result. DD has not completed the question fully, so has not got full marks. Totally fair.

sashh · 08/02/2017 08:37

Not only is it normal but if there are two or three ways to do something and the question asks for one method then you don't get the marks if you use a different method.

eg in computer science there are a couple of ways to do binary subtraction (because computers don't actually subtract, divide or multiply) one way that doesn't attract marks is to convert the numbers in to decimal, do the subtraction and convert the answer back to binary.

It seems harsh but the other methods are the way computers work so you need to understand that to do further study.

Even more complicated if you don't understand computer working is that you can add two numbers in decimal and convert it back to binary but the answer is wrong because of an 'overflow error' ie the computer wouldn't be able to get the correct answer due to the memory available for calculations.

bruffin · 08/02/2017 08:41

ds has dyslexia and would copy the wrong number from previous page or use wrong setting on calculator but thankfuĺly would get good marks because his workings were correct

DragonitesRule · 08/02/2017 08:44

My DD suffered with this when she first started high school-I just told her to look at the marks allocated to the question-if it was 3 marks for one question then they are clearly looking for more than just the answer. If it's one mark, clearly the answer will do. Would that help your DD?

akkakk · 08/02/2017 08:48

you are not losing a mark for not showing workings, you are simply getting the marks allocated to the correct answer and not getting the marks allocated tot he workings...

as others have said - process is a big part of maths...

however it can be unfair - there was a paper by Grey & Tall (Warwick Uni) back in the 90s on the maths learning of children - looking at how some use procedure, some use concept, and others have a higher way of understanding maths which they called procept - a sort of rolled up instinctive understanding - they are often the maths genius bods, but can find it difficult, esp. at lower ages to show working -they just know the answer...

but ultimately school exams are not about knowledge and ability - they are about moving through the school system Grin

pishedoff · 08/02/2017 08:50

Yes!

DS1 struggled with this as he's always preferred to work questions out in his head rather than write them down, something that wasn't questioned at primary school, so it was abit of a shock when he got to secondary!

Bluebellevergreen · 08/02/2017 09:03

Absolutely. This was the norm when I was in school too!
And DD must know it.
If you show the workings and yoo make a mistake at the end then at least you are showing what you know.
Just writing the right answer is never seen as a good answer.
This continued with me until I finished my masters (I studied maths/ physics...)

It is the way it is and she will know for next time. She probably knows already so she doesnt want you to talk to teacher

nauticant · 08/02/2017 09:17

This is what happens when you miss out the working:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermat's_Last_Theorem

F1GI · 08/02/2017 09:24

Teacher trying to teach your dd a lesson I think. Working is very important to protect you from losing all marks in the event of a minor slip.

Trifleorbust · 08/02/2017 11:54

Totally standard practise - she will know this as well.

noblegiraffe · 08/02/2017 17:09

I'm having this battle with my Y7s too at the moment. At primary they are told to show their working and because they don't use calculators, this means doing written methods for long calculations, so they think showing their working means long calculations.

Then they get to secondary school and they're told to show their working but it's because maths is about presenting a solution to a question, which is different to presenting an answer. Even if they can do it in their head, or if they've done it on a calculator, they have to write down what they did, to show that not only have they got the correct answer, but to argue that it is the correct answer.

We then have arguments about 'I did it in my head and didn't need to write anything down', or 'I did it on a scrap of paper that I've left at home' or 'it's in the back of my book'. Penalising them for not showing working with their answer is part of winning this argument, to show that it won't be accepted at secondary.