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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Good luck to all those preparing for January entrance exams!

97 replies

CheerLeader2017 · 22/12/2016 19:35

I remember being in this same position last year...Great words of wisdom from a Head Teacher in this article www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2016/12/21/preparing-school-entrance-exams-celebrate-childs-efforts-much/

OP posts:
ChestnutsRoastingOnAnOpenFire · 06/01/2017 10:42

Yes stay away from 11+ forum. We went into this all very naively last year. I did no preparation with DD except for weekly 1 hour tutor session for 6 weeks for familiarisation. She got into all the ones (2 selective, 2 superselective) she sat for and was from a good rated state primary, very bright but no genius. About 20% of her year group sat for independents/super selective grammars and only 1 child didn't get any offers.

Only thing I have noticed is that the super-prepared (hothoused or from preps) are the ones who did best in the test and walked away with the scholarships and 10-20% fee discount. Funny as now she is in year 7 the scholars are not necessarily in the top sets, the bursary and full fee paying state kids have caught up quickly and are the front runners. But those selected as scholars get the discounts...

ChocolateWombat · 06/01/2017 11:00

Scholarships are basically a marketing tool in many schools. They attract people to apply and when they have 2 offers or more, a scholarship can encourage parents/child to opt for the school giving the scholarship, even if it isn't the best offer.....not just because of the money saving (because many are token amounts of about £1k - helpful, but not going to make or break the decision for most when fees are over £15k for a day place) but also the sense of prestige that some parents (esp prep school parents) gain from telling everyone that Jonny got a scholarship.

Yes, some of the scholars will turn out to be very bright, but some also turn up in the lower sets or are lazy. Prep school students are more likely to apply for scholarships, encouraged by the school (which gains prestige and uses the no of awards as a marketing tool at 4+ and 7+) and also because the Prep schools are more aware of the requirements and can do the work witH them to get them ready - so music departments run theory classes and art departments run sessions to create portfolios or for art appreciation.

When schools are deciding who to give scholarships to, they of course look at who is most able in the differential areas as far as it is poss to tell) but other factors determine decisions too - so what other schools they have applied to, which school they are from and how many scholarships that prep school 'needs' to receive to maintain the strong relationship between them. It's a complex situationn with many factors feeding into who does and doesn't get the scholarships - especially with the arts based ones.

Most academic scholarships are based purely on entrance exam, so all have a chance regardless of the type of school they are from.....no extra application is usually required. However, as the pp said, more go to those who have been highly prepped, either by school or tutors or parents, because despite the best efforts of schools to make the exams untutorable, you still can give yourself or your child a better chance through prep in advance. It may not be possible to 'polish a turd' as the expression goes, but it is certainly possible to make a moderately shiny one even more shiny!

In my view, whilst Prep schools do help their kids to was the exam etc and certainly can make a big difference for non academic scholarships, a state school child who has a tutor or a switched on parent who is able and willing to put in the time and effort in prepping, can do as well in the exams themselves. Parent preparers always are more invested in the outcomes of their own child than a school, but the commitment, effort needed and conflict it can cause between many children and their parents means it's certainly not for everyone.

Good luck everyone. Hope they get their offers first of all and scholarships as a lovely bonus!

ChestnutsRoastingOnAnOpenFire · 06/01/2017 11:08

Yes I think scholarships either should be awarded when the kids have settled in and true talent is known, or even better abandoned totally in order to increase the bursary pot. Is bonkers that charitable organisations support a system where the richest (most advantaged) or bonkers preppers are rewarded with fee discounts.

choselatymer · 06/01/2017 11:14

Stalingrad Latymer Upper cannot be next Thursday because the students are back with lessons. The exam is NEXT TUESDAY.

nocampinghere · 06/01/2017 11:30

well DD1 got offered 2/2 academic scholarships
state primary
weekly tutor for 2 terms
not a bonkers prepper parent

for DD2 i'm just hoping for an offer, a choice would be very nice Grin

M00MINMAMMA · 06/01/2017 11:34

Thanks all re 11 plus forum. Yes, I was on there for about 30 mins and then decided it was too stressful. And thanks for that info SW15mum I will definitely pass that on to ds.

Re prep I just think of needing to think of the long game - I don't want to push ds now at 11 and get him into a top school only to find he hates it or is surrounded by kids way brighter/overtutored and miserable. ds is a slow burner anyway and I suspect he won't be peaking until he's older, which is fine with me. It's just holding your nerve and not succumbing to the whole 11+ madness.

Good luck all and what a lovely thread with lovely posters! flowers

M00MINMAMMA · 06/01/2017 11:35

Aargh that was supposed to be Flowers Flowers

ChestnutsRoastingOnAnOpenFire · 06/01/2017 11:39

That's nice nocamping but it's unusual for London where so many are in preps. We have friends and our kid at 8 big name London schools and all the academic scholarships (not bursaries) are taken by prep kids or children with very 'ambitious' parents. There is more of a mix for music scholars though.

M00MINMAMMA · 06/01/2017 11:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsPatmore · 06/01/2017 11:40

I have often pondered this. Year after year, children from enormously wealthy families receive scholarships worth £4,000 at our local Independant schools. These are the very families that can afford the top notch, £100 per hour tutors, two instrument tuition from age 5, fabulous travelling experiences to talk about etc. The playing field can't be levelled but surely these scholarships should be made honorary/minimal financial award and the money put into the bursary pot? The families would still have the kudos of the scholarship label.

M00MINMAMMA · 06/01/2017 11:41

Although so you know the laid back parents I was talking about were both Cambridge graduates and are a very bookish family iyswim - they have been academic from day one but not in a pushy way and the boy was just naturally very clever.

Stalingrad · 06/01/2017 11:46

@Choselatymer - I love your name and hope we have that choice! It's our first choice due to being co-ed. and you are right, exam is Tueaday, I had that written correct on my Calender but somehow typed it wrong.

Phaedra - my DD2 is sitting the consortium group 2 as we speak. I am taking her out for a celebratory lunch afterwards. I just hope she feels like celebrating!

Stalingrad · 06/01/2017 11:47

DD1, I can't type at all today.

choselatymer · 06/01/2017 12:08

Best of luck, Stalingrad!

CheerLeader2017 · 06/01/2017 12:39

Scholarship value varies greatly between schools, from 0 up to 100% once topped up with a bursary or educational grant. In the same way, bursary threshold bands and the application process can be significantly different. It is definitely worth doing some research as there are many factors to consider. Overall, there is no scholarship prototype, so don't be put off, it's worth giving it a go. I'm just sharing from the personal experience of having children in top prep/independent/music specialist schools on 3 different scholarships. They started out from a very average state primary, so there was quite a bit of catch up to do. I wouldn't call myself extreme, I have met far scarier mums and tend to stay away...! Will soon begin preparation with my youngest, so I welcome meeting any parents on the same journey.

OP posts:
ClaireBlunderwood · 06/01/2017 13:41

It's quite hard to justify generous scholarships though, isn't it? Up here in North London the more academically selective have phased them out in favour of the bursary pot - UCS just offers a book token, while Highgate gives them to children actually in the senior school based on their performance over the year. City boys is the exception in still offering up to 25% non-means tested and I think it makes them look a bit desperate especially since all the kids I know who've been offered it a) have educational trust funds and b) the parents always seem to mention it in every conversation.

Forest School offers really, really generous ones, I think up to 50% - certainly enough to sway decisions. I think it makes them look like Gap - you know always with a sale on, desperate for your custom and making you unlikely to want to pay full price.

Threeschools · 06/01/2017 14:08

25 to 50% scholarships is to target the professionals with many children, whose income is too high for bursaries but too low for 3-4 children at private secondaries. If they were prepared to invest time and money in the 11+ they will also do so for the GCSEs, and the schools will benefit from this.

NotAMusician · 06/01/2017 14:56

I would like to send my DS to a independent school with a decent scholarship because full fee is too much for me. Otherwise he can only end to a grammar. Agree of opinion of 11+ forum, they are just run by few North London tutors.

ClaireBlunderwood · 06/01/2017 15:05

Yes although they don't seem to necessarily go to those people that have most need of them which is why bursaries exist (I know there's an in-between category of those too rich for bursaries too poor for fees though). Like I say, the kids I know who've got them are those for whom the 4k off makes little or no difference.

I'm not saying they don't help, I'm just wondering how the money around for fee reduction can be best justified and I'm not sure that offering it to a kid based on an exam performance at 10 is necessarily the way to go.

Phaedra1234 · 06/01/2017 15:12

Stalingrad - what did your DD think of the consortium exam this morning? Mine is feeling pretty good about the whole thing (not sure it is a good sign, I hope she did not miss the subtleties in the comprehension)

Stalingrad · 06/01/2017 17:33

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Justchanged · 06/01/2017 17:49

Stalingrad. I suggest you ask for your last message to be deleted as there may be a second sitting for those who were ill.

FWIW - DD also found both papers straightforward. Unfortunately, she is probe to careless mistakes so her assessment is often a sign she wasn't careful enough!

halo53 · 06/01/2017 20:44

Hi. Did any of your children take the Hampton exam on 3rd? My son found the maths quite difficult and nowhere near finished it. He's normally very good at maths. Just wondering if it was just him or did others find it hard 🤔

buriedgiant · 06/01/2017 21:00

My DS did the Hampton exam and also found the maths hard but he did finish it. His strength is in maths though. A few of his friends who did the exams found it hard too, apparently not all of them finished it.

NotAMusician · 06/01/2017 21:46

DS said Hampton math is ok. There words and reasoning are difficult for him.