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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Y7 new starter sets based on sats results, help!

65 replies

steggers123 · 10/09/2016 08:36

Hello, my DS started high school last week and received his new time table yesterday, he has been set purely on his Sats results. He scored 107 in maths 108 in SPAG and 98 in reading he went into meltdown during the reading paper and his primary school teacher explains to his new high school that this score was not a reflection of his ability and looking at the other scores this is quite clear, so he has put into set 1 for maths and set 3 out of 3 for English, the humanities and science. I'm going into school on Monday and any advice you could give me would be much appreciated. Thank you

OP posts:
RandomMess · 10/09/2016 15:12

I thought "c" was the highest you could get with the foundation papers, which is the issue if you are in the wrong set - you don't get the opportunity to achieve an A or B?

PikachuSayBoo · 10/09/2016 15:39

There's normally quite a bit of movement in year 7 between sets.

Original poster
steggers123 · 10/09/2016 15:43

I'm sorry but there is no need to be a smart arse it's actually quite boring. Bottom line my son's primary school head teacher said yesterday that he is a capable child that should not be anywhere near a set 3...that's not my opinion, that's the opinion of an experienced head teacher who has known him for 7 years. As for the older one, he should have been allowed to sit the higher paper because he was more than capable again this came from the maths who taught in years 10 and 11.

OP posts:
kilmuir · 10/09/2016 15:48

He may be with lots of other capable children though, or dare I say more capable?
My DD goes to grammar school. They only put them in sets as per SATs results then moved them all around once they had settled in and school could judge where they were best put.

AndNowItsSeven · 10/09/2016 15:48

C is the highest possible score in foundation. However schools aren't stupid big man would have been moved up if his work was consistently high.
In regards to your younger ds unless the school is struggling academic your ds is in the right set.
108 is not a top set score for spag my dd got 113 and just scrapped into top set for English.
108 for maths was also my dd score and she is in set three not one.

kilmuir · 10/09/2016 15:49

I don't understand why older DS was not put in for higher paper in Maths?

AndNowItsSeven · 10/09/2016 15:50

My dd was also settled solely on her sats but just until after October half term. End of Sept they will do internal exams.

Original poster
steggers123 · 10/09/2016 15:52

He scored 107 in his maths and is in the top set for maths. Only 5% of children scored over 110 so I would say 108 on his spag is a very good score and your daughter's spag result was superb.

OP posts:
AndNowItsSeven · 10/09/2016 15:52

Kilmuir , because he wasn't as able as the op assumed he was. I assumed my dd would be in top set for maths or at least set two. I was wrong, hopfefully she will get moved up but only if her maths ability improves.

Original poster
steggers123 · 10/09/2016 15:53

He joined the school at the end of year 9 when all sets had been sorted for year 10, they had no room for him anywhere else, hence my frustration at the time.

OP posts:
kilmuir · 10/09/2016 15:55

Blimey that's a bit poor.

AndNowItsSeven · 10/09/2016 15:56

Yes 108 is a good score , sorry I wasn't suggesting it wasn't. However there will be dc who achieved higher scores , and they will be in set one and two. Having said that setting via sets is not an accurate measure , but that's what the school have chosen as a baseline.

AndNowItsSeven · 10/09/2016 15:57

If that is true , that's appalling , I just find it strange they wouldn't put a highly able child in for the higher paper.

Original poster
steggers123 · 10/09/2016 15:58

I didn't assume he was able, the maths teacher he had in years 10 and 11 told me he should not be in his class he was more than able to do the higher paper. He's just got his estimated A level grades History, English Lit and Business studies and they are estimated at AAB so I guess I was right about his abilities and school got it wrong

OP posts:
Original poster
steggers123 · 10/09/2016 16:02

Yep he went from gaining a scholarship at a private school we were told he was good enough to do law, and when went to his state school he was put in foundation level and he was told they couldn't move him up as there was no room in the higher sets and if they moved him up they would have to move someone else down. His confidence was shot as you can imagine, but he's moved onwards and upwards but I have to keep an eye on what's happening with the younger one.

OP posts:
HarrietSchulenberg · 10/09/2016 16:03

Most schools would enter more able students for the Higher paper if they felt the child was able to cope with it, regardless of setting. Much better that he got a "secure" C on the Foundation than a "maybe" C (more likely D) on the Higher.

Your Y7 has plenty of time to move sets if they're capable, and the new GCSEs are the same paper for all: no Higher and Foundation papers anymore. He'll be sitting the same paper as everyone else.

Oblomov16 · 10/09/2016 16:08

children were put in sets according to how they performed in the schools own tests, on visiting day; primary's reports and recommendations; SATs.

Our school moved children in first term of yr7, and the second term. Then they sat summer exams and they have all been re-set for maths, English and science, for year 8.

I think a lot of movement is common at most schools.

Balletgirlmum · 10/09/2016 16:13

That's not the case though Harriet becsuse in the lower sets they won't have time to teach the higher paper work.

MrsWorryWart · 10/09/2016 16:14

Don't they usually put them in sets according to their actual result, as opposed to what the teacher says they can achieve?

This is the problem, as some children aren't as confident in the tests.

I don't know whether your DC's are hard done to or not, but school can surely only go off their results.

Most children are moved after CATs, in or around their second term, from my experience. And the secondary school will grade them again. I'm presuming this is what may happen in your DS's case.

ihearttc · 10/09/2016 16:17

If it helps at all (which I appreciate it probably doesn't) DS1 got 111 in his maths SATS, 108 in Reading and 107 in SPAG but his Y7 don't set at all in Y7.

AnyTheWiser · 10/09/2016 16:22

  1. there is no more higher and foundation levels at GCSE. That's gone. In the future, ie five years time, assuming we still have GCSE Hmm they will all sit the same papers.

  2. w hat on earth do you expect the secondary school to use other than KS2 results to 'set' the children, as they don't know them yet, and TA is now as vague as 'at national standard ', 'below national standard ' or 'above national standard '. That's it. Below could be - capable of 99 on most days all the way down to 'isnt sure we're addressing her when we say her name'. Secondary schools can't use TA any more.

Balletgirlmum · 10/09/2016 16:29

We'll both my children's schools do cats or Midyis testing in the first week/couple of weeks of term but they don't actually set until year 8.

cansu · 10/09/2016 16:37

You might have been better waiting a couple of weeks before reacting. If your ds is more capable then the teacher is going to notice this pretty quickly tbh. They will undoubtedly do their own assessment. In your situation I would have written a note or email explaining that he had not done as well as expected in the reading sat and you are concerned he might be in the wrong set, could they keep an eye on this when doing their own assessments.

Longlost10 · 10/09/2016 18:04

If your elder DS had got a mark which would have equated to a better grade on the maths higher paper, this would have shown on his results. If he had been capable of the higher paper, he only need to have asked for the material, it is readily available, and many kids in foundation classes do higher papers in maths with or without direct teacher input. You only need the teaching material, available in text books, on line, from school, anywhere. It is not like science where you need to do an extra piece of lab based coursework to move from double to triple, etc.He got a C, no indication that he had done particularly well, or was capable of a B. it is most likely he would have got a D in the higher paper, where getting a C is harder. He was correctly setted.

Longlost10 · 10/09/2016 18:10

I'm sorry but there is no need to be a smart arse it's actually quite boring no one is being a smartarse, quite the reverse, just explaining the reality to you. The school will be inundated with hundreds of parents contacting them every year, to explain that their particular child is actually a misunderstood genius, and has been incorrectly set. Parents don't actually realise that performance at home with a cosy parent is no indicator of performance in a class room or exam. We have had 11 parents in, in 3 days in my department, complaining their children have been set too low, in our one subject alone.......there will be many more next week. I don't mind though, it shows parental engagement, and bodes well for their children's prospects that parents take an active interest, inconvenient as it can be at the start of term when we are very busy, and have to repeatedly stop what we are doing to have the same discussion over and over again.