Petition against grammar school expansion

[JaneJefferson]

Sign the petition if you disagree with the roll out of new grammar schools and the poorer education that will be forced onto the majority who do not pass to get into them.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/164270

Offline, you got me wrong. I just want teachers focussed on the job of teaching children in our school. As soon as they are distracted elsewhere standards could slip

Responding to the Green Paper, my experience is:

It can be hard to figure out how to even respond, sometimes the consultation paper itself is hard to find. Then they don't make it obvious or easy to even find the online survey (provided for collecting replies) or the address to post your letter to. Keep looking hard.

Typically there is an online survey made up of set questions about specific sections of the paper: these questions may not allow you to raise any points (for or against) that matter to you. The questions may (all) be very mock-innocent "How much do you agree that education needs to be improved", and "Do you agree that it's important to give bright children from poor children access to the best possible education." Chances for you to raise your own ideas, using the online survey, may be minimal.

I always swear at this point that the whole thing is a stitch up (witness most recent consultation about future of the BBC). So writing to your MP using your own bullet points may be the highest impact action. You could write a full letter to consultation panel, too, but I am convinced these are dealt with crudely:

Either sorted into 2 simple categories of for/anti proposed changes, OR

...used to go thru the online form & they pretend to answer all those vague questions from the info in your letter.

Even if the responses are simply sorted pro/anti then they will have to report numbers of each.

/www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/baroness-nicholson-returns-to-tory-fold-21-years-after-joining-lib-dems-35039281.html

The Government it seems have got one more member of the House of Lords on their side .

The speculation is she rejoined the Conservative party because she is in favor of grammar schools, as well as disagreeing with the Lib Dems over Europe.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/baroness-nicholson-returns-to-tory-fold-21-years-after-joining-lib-dems-35039281.html

Nonsense
I am all for grammar schools. Why so negative about them. Not their fault that some academies are crap. Raise the standard of the alternatives, not pull apart an educational system that works well for many.
I have DC at both grammar and academy

But there are Tory MPs who are against it.

Sam Freedman was asked what Michael Gove's position was and he said he didn't know, but I reckon Gove isn't in favour of grammars otherwise we'd have them already. Gove wanted a grammar school education for all. This policy just pisses over everything he tried to achieve with his curriculum reforms. Nicky Morgan said as much, she has come out against grammars.

Kate Hoey has come out in total favor of the grammar school proposals!

I have always been a huge fan of Kate Hoey/ Frank Field because both of them have always been independent thinkers. They are not afraid to act against the consensus of the left wing if they disagree.

I hope Alison Mcgovern has got some bottle and joins with Kate Hoey !

if Labour were a party of 'Social Mobilty' they would at least have an open mind on an idea that was a Labour Idea in the first place !

www.dawilymail.co.uk/news/article-3783576/As-grammar-girl-despair-kneejerk-party-Labour-MP-KATE-HOEY-dismayed-ideological-opposition-Theresa-s-plans.ht

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3783576/As-grammar-girl-despair-kneejerk-party-Labour-MP-KATE-HOEY-dismayed-ideological-opposition-Theresa-s-plans.html?ITO=14

Kate Hoey's article reads exactly as expected. Someone who went to grammar school who attributes their success to their grammar school (because they are told that that is what grammar schools do) and can't comprehend that it is entirely possible she would have been just as successful in a comprehensive school.

If Gove isn't in favour of Grammar Schools, that must mean that they are a very good thing indeed!

Michael Morpugo had a bad experience after he failed the 11+. Blighted by an "early diagnosis of stupidity." If we're reduced to discussing which famous personalities to go along with. On radio now!

I am in favour of grammars.

But create more grammars to take the squeeze and competition away from the scramble for places at current grammars. Ours has no catchment and it's a 10:1 ratio of getting in.

Ours gives 20 percent of places to FSM and lowers the qualifying score

When we visited many kids were from average working state school families like ours, mainly Asian demographic which challenges the stereotype of the entitled MC white kid.

HaHa Kate Hoey Inner City MP in support of fox hunting as an 'independent thinker' but her constituency office is next door to the Countryside Alliance office. I bet they never have dinner together in the MP's gathering and lobbying restaurant up the road.

Oh, OK, Portico - it sounded as if you didn't want grammar schools in particular to have to start spreading their interest.

Schools and teachers of all kinds have put up with distraction after distraction, change of system, marking, measurement, priority, policy, law, school management, all by government and all disruptive. I honestly think an agreement that government will LEAVE SCHOOL ALONE for 5 years could reap benefits for all.

That's one thing they can't throw at grammar schools that they are'racist' or discriminate against minorities!

Apparently in the Times it says 26% of all Grammar School admissions are from children from 'ethnic' minorities !

I bet the anti's are gutted about that

If you create more grammars, then you're just lowering the entry score. What you're actually saying is that either

1. there are bright children out there who should be in a grammar school who can't get in because they don't meet the entry criteria
   This just means that having an arbitrary cut-off mark isn't right, there are children below the mark who should also receive an 'academic' education. This will happen wherever you place the cut-off, which is why cutting those children out aged 11 and putting them in a different building and giving them a different curriculum is ridiculous.

2. Parents should be able to get their children into a grammar school regardless of whether they are bright enough to meet the entry criteria or not. It's not about academic ability, it's about how the type of education offered by a grammar is perceived by the parents as more desirable. In which case, these parents need to be more honest about their concerns regarding the non-grammar options.

Of course grammar schools have lots of ethnic minorities, EAL kids from certain ethnicities (especially Chinese) completely outperform white kids nationally.

YeOldeTrout and anyone else considering responding to the Green paper should watch this excellent speech from the Research Ed conference yesterday by Tim Leunig, the Key Analyst for the DfE who will most likely be reading the responses and presenting them to the SoS.

livestream.com/L4L/rED16/videos/135298702

It's quite long, but particularly the bit at 8:15, he says the consultation is not a fake, and he says how to respond - state your background, your responses should be clear, calm and evidence-based. He also confirms that if the evidence comes out against grammar schools that the DfE will brief the SoS accordingly.

Thanks 4 that link, Noble. Sadly it made me think that I wouldn't have the right background to say anything that would be valued. Tim Leunig seemed to say that people who already work in education would have the most influence. Later he said that teacher retention was a huge concern. But how many education reforms have been introduced in last 15 years that teachers & their unions vehemently opposed. Makes me wonder if I can believe anything Leunig said. :(

yeOLdeTrout Absolutely you must respond to the consultation. There is plenty of well-informed opinion that the D of E would like to get out of this. Having the No pile bigger than the Yes pile might help and certainly can't do any harm.

The Tories want to stay in Government. If they realise that Grammar schools are vote losers rather than the vote winners they hope for, they would scrap the policy. Theresa May may not see that creating Grammars creates Sec Mods by default, but just about everyone else does.

Makes me wonder if I can believe anything Leunig said.

I don't think the DfE want this. Nick Gibb (schools minister, Tory MP) said that if the evidence was against this policy then he would absolutely take that into account. Justine Greening looks like she doesn't want this. Michael Gove stood up in parliament yesterday and said that he hoped the evidence would be taken into account on this.

The consultation responses will be published, they won't be able to hide negative figures (and I don't think the DfE want to).

The consultation does say at the top it is for parents and young people as well as education professionals.

I am for grammar schools- my comp didnt do any form of streaming therefore the majority of my classes were disrupted by those who I felt did not want to learn which made me annoyed and stressed that doing well at school was to be mocked and laughed at. Looking back as an adult I can see that it's not always as simple as 'didn't want to learn' and home life and a myriad of reasons may have been the cause, but still I felt my education was disrupted.

20 to 30 years ago the fashion was for not streaming, or setting. I think you would be hard pressed now to find a school which didn't set for key subjects like maths, science and English.

I am still bemused by the fact that academic children can't be distruptive - IMO clever children find clever ways of creating havoc for a weak teacher.