Ds doing poorly at independent school - move to state?

[SeptemberFear]

Please don't flame me for this - I am trying to think through all our options and do the best for ds, but I also need to be a bit pragmatic!

Ds has just left year 8 in an academically-selective independent school. His end of year report is pretty bad. He is in the bottom fifth of the year for 'effort' and has had many detentions this year for not handing in homework, being late to class etc. His end of year exams were also fairly dire - clearly he hadn't done enough revision etc.

However, he enjoys school, has loads of friends and - academic achievement notwithstanding - is by all accounts a very popular and well-liked kid by staff and peers. His reports all say that his poor results are down to lack of application and effort rather than inherent lack of ability iyswim. He's not bothered, basically.

He is there on a bursary which, although pretty generous, still means I have to find several hundred pounds a month which is very difficult. I am a single parent on a very moderate income and ds's dad no longer contributes to school fees (he did when ds started there but not any more, long story, different thread!) I feel awful saying this but I am starting to begrudge paying all that money every month when ds is clearly not bothering atm.

Part of me thinks I should bite the bullet and move him. Another part of me thinks that if he's naturally lazy (like I was at school, to be fair!) then moving away from small class sizes/a more competitive environment etc won't help. I also don't want to send him the wrong message - like he's not 'worth' paying out for if we're not getting a 'return' (although in my darker, private moments I'll admit that's how I'm starting to feel!) And on another hand altogether maybe he's just slower to mature than some of the other boys in his year and it's not quite 'clicked' with him yet?

I love my ds to pieces, he is genuinely a lovely boy with lots of potential (imo!) and just want the best for him. He is like I was at the same age, basically, just can't really be arsed.

I wanted him to have a shot at a great education in a great school, but I wonder whether I've got my priorities wrong? Should I take him out and stop worrying, let him get on with it and at least be able to pay for extra-curricular stuff etc? Or, should I just keep him at the school he clearly loves, carry on encouraging/pushing him to make more effort and hope for the best?

Any advice would be really welcome.

X posted with senua great minds and all that

Does he know how to apply himself? It's really hard for a disorganised, undriven person to do, and they need to acquire the skills and build up the stamina slowly and carefully.

I wouldn't move him. He won't rise to the challenge in any school where coasting to get Cs will go unnoticed.

DS2 was like that last year. Yr 9 he worked really hard and got good marks, then slipped right back in some subjects but came top of year in others, and is definitely overall showing a stronger work ethic in all areas of his life including outside interests.

For DS we:
have his homework schedule and his timetable on kitchen wall and check it nightly.
I ask what the homework is. I check his homework diary. He has failed to remember to write it down (always.) I get him a drink while he texts a more organised friend (he rotates so they don't get annoyed with him) what the homework was. When they reply, he writes it down. Then he's free to do nothing until dinner. After dinner he does his homework and once it's done he's free again. He has very few weekday clubs as he just hasn't the stamina for those and homework, but does lots at weekends.
We have a rule that you do homework on the night it's given not the night before it's due, unless it's a long project.
He has ziplock bags for each subject that hold text and exercise books, handouts and nay special materials he needs for each session. They're kept in a crate, so he never has to hunt for them.

Maybe something similar - a really basic but unchanging system in place would help your DS start applying himself.

I do think that boys will tend to be less mature than girls at this age. And year 8 can be a funny time - they're working out what they like, what they don't. As LIZS says, it can become easier as they work out what they are good at, and can drop subjects that they're not.

In terms of homework though, I appreciate that you do work fulltime, but surely at weekends there is still time to stop and take a look over? What is ds doing when he should be doing homework? I found Qustodio to help with one of mine who would otherwise drift to the computer.

Detentions were for not handing in work, work not compete etc, not for behaviour. The school definitely hasn't said anything about any risk to the bursary. My impression is that they have seen this all before and are rather assuming he will grow out of it... He is one of the youngest in the year and a little immature in some ways I suppose (organisation etc)

cathyandclaire - I'm hanging on to that! He is definitely happy - I worried at first that that might not be the case but there are no issues. I'm hoping that next year will be the one that clicks for him.

We have tried incentives and sanctions...not much luck with either.

Got the ziplock bags, got the homework schedule on the wall, got the evening routine, been there done that - even got the crate

I'm relieved that most have said stick it out and don't move him. I don't want to (if I can help it). I agree that a school where he can just coast for Cs won't be helpful for a kid like him.

Never heard of Qustudio, will take a look thanks LM

Does he have issues organising himself? Sometimes selective schools aren't particularly geared up to teach kids how to organise themselves. I would keep him there but try and keep on top of it at home ie check homework, ask teachers to copy you in on homework set. I had to do this for dd2 it was a pain but worked.

Sorry I now see th at others have suggested this

Can you work together over the summer? Get him doing some bits daily so he has to make an effort, and help him where he struggles so he can start September levelled up with everyone else.

Bribe him with trip to cake cafes or whatever each week if he completes the work.

What do you mean by 'maybe putting too much pressure on him' OP?

I wouldn't move him for the simple reason that moving a child who isn't motivated, risking him being out of sorts socially, may well demotivate him further.

Does the GCSE programme start in Y9 at his school? Many schools are moving to a three year KS4 and the fact that it's 'real' - and that he can drop subjects he's less keen on - may help.

Also, don't worry too much, he's got plenty of time before it's too late to turn it around. Low level nagging with an occasional meltdown might be a good plan; overt pressure might backfire.

cathyandclaire

Also OP, I'm just wondering how academically selective the school is? Because as a previous poster said, someone has to be at the bottom and if it's the bottom of a school like St. Paul's that really isn't so bad. Bottom of St Cake's where the top kids rarely manage A*s is a different creature entirely (and being 'selective' is of course a selling point for almost all indies, but some are a great deal less selective than others....).

I actually think you're fretting too early!

I work fulltime, am on my own, I can't spend every moment over him checking he's done what he needs to do...

I'm afraid that you're going to have to. The only problem he seems to have is homework. This is actually a really easy one to resolve. Most schools put homework online these days so that parents can check. If his school don't do that, ask them to.

Make sure you find out every day what the homework is and make him sit at the table in front of you and get on with it, without any distractions such as his phone.

Why can't you do that? It should be about 30-60 minutes a day. He can do it whilst you're cooking dinner or ironing or whatever it is that you need to get done in the evening.

But you should be helping and checking he has done work. You much have an hour a day free in the evening.

Get home, and get him starting work as you prep dinner for example so you can multitask. Most people work full time, they still have to help.

Statistics show school should only account for 40% of learning. So that means they should be getting 60% outside school. That's everything from sitting down studying, to museums, documentaries, general discussions, to walking in woods to find certain things.

You can't expect many children to do well at 12 without outside input.

Thanks goodbyestranger that's is actually really helpful - I'm happy to be told I'm fretting too early! And I really do fret about this, mainly to myself, I think I probably need to take a step back.

Yes they are starting some of the GSCEs work from Sept which I think must be a good thing, both in terms of it being 'real' and giving them some time to 'get there'.

The school isn't St Pauls but it is an MN favourite...am saying no more!

Low level nagging with an occasional meltdown is a perfect description of what goes on in our house, actually

artandco, yes, I've already decided that when we get back from our holiday in a fortnight we'll start doing some school work...he'll have had a month's break by then so I don't think it's unreasonable and school suggested it needed to happen anyway.

You have all made me feel much better, thanks. I was having a bit of a panic I think. I just feel like I was never pushed at school and consequently never did as well as I could have done. Almost 30 years on it doesn't matter so much (ironically I'm an academic now!) but it took me a long while to catch up, and I'm so aware that the world is so much more competitive now. I just don't want him to turn around in 20 years and wish he'd done it differently, like I did.

I think having friends, being popular and liked by staff are huge pluses for staying with the independent. Changing schools at 13 will be tough for him however good you think the new school may be.

DS has just finished yr7 and we have a rule of no screens Mon-Wed evenings except for homework purposes. This does mean distractions are limited. He has his phone for school bus etc so he's not out of the social loop with his friends.

Yes I know I need to do more, I'm not trying to make excuses. I've not been leaving him to get on with it, some evenings I've virtually stood over him whilst he does it, but I know I need to do more.

It is tough to balance how much to push, and how to avoid being a nag.

As you look ahead, it is worth thinking about the different subjects. Some GCSE course are simply straight "courses", others such as maths rely on knowledge built up over many years. Maths, sciences and any language which is taking to GCSE require foundations being built in years 7-9 IMO, and I would be inclined to focus any of my own "encouragement" onto those areas initially.

I really wouldn't discount the value of having someone who is happy to go to and be at their school during the teen years.

You say that you've tried incentives and sanctions but they don't work. What is it that makes them not work?

I think that you may be projecting. Having said that, it seems you are doing OK now despite not being pushed at school. Don't put this all on yourself - it's his life and at some stage he needs to take responsibility for it.
You may be fretting but do keep a bit of an eye on things. He is exploring boundaries. He has done (mildly) bad things and the sky hasn't fallen in. Make sure that he doesn't escalate his boundary-pushing.

One of my pet theories is that teenager are like toddlers. Their brains are going through another growth spurt and they have to negotiate it. Teenagers need to learn that actions have consequences; it's because they don't understand this that they do crazy things . 'Actions have consequences' is the most important thing you can teach him.

Don't focus too much on the academics. Life is different now. Having good A Levels or a good degree doesn't differentiate you these days. Having good personal skills / EQ does, and your DS seems to have these. My DS was never the model pupil but gets away with it because he puts in enough effort (he's very good at assessing this) and charms/blags his way out of trouble. It's the way of the world that men are better at doing this than women.

Yes, it's a really good point about him being happy to go to school and one of the main reason why I don't really want to move him - if I didn't think he was happy it would be a no-brainer really.

Maths and sciences by far are the weakest areas and that does worry me. I agree that's absolutely where the focus has to be. Thankfully his MFL is the one area in which he does really excel at the moment - consistently good marks and loves the subject; hopefully that won't change now that his lovely, supportive teacher is leaving... If only we could translate that to the other subjects!

fairenuff, I honestly don't know why they don't work. He just doesn't seem to be motivated by anything like that, positive or negative, at the moment.

I'd be wary of pressurizing him. Surely by Year 9 you don't won't to be nagging or bribing him to do work. I'd let him carry on at the school but would leave him to it. It's very possible that he might start working hard on his own accord. I'd sit down with him and explain your finances. He might not understand that it's hard for you to find the money.

Monitoring homework in year 9 is OTT for a bright lad.

I'd also apply to local schools for next year and see how things go.

senua, I'm almost certainly projecting . I was bright but lazy at school, got mediocre results, knew my parents were disappointed but was also angry with them because they never helped or supported, just got cross three times a year when the report arrived and left me to it the rest of the time. Also ds's father dropped out of school at 15 (not in UK), went off the rails massively , doesn't have a qualification to his name, is a mess financially, emotionally, alcohol/drugs, messed things up in every way possible. I fear ds having those traits and wanted to give him the best start possible to try and mitigate some of that, give him a solid grounding at least...I know that good A levels don't stop you making a pigs ear of your life though!

Probably sounds a bit bonkers and this certainly wasn't supposed to be a therapy session for me

SeptemberFear oh well in the context of that sort of school I'm sure it'll all be fine. I've been there, done that (more than once!) and none of my boys have yet failed to realize, sometimes eventually, that occasional work pays off. It's great that he has a flair for MFL because it only takes being really good at a single thing to motivate them elsewhere too. I also think it very good that the GCSE programme starts in Y9, since Y9 was traditionally the coasting year.

Have a good holiday, perhaps a single motivational speech en route, and I'd honestly stick to keeping a weather eye on what's going on without being too full on. Main message: relax!

*But you should be helping and checking he has done work. You much have an hour a day free in the evening.

Get home, and get him starting work as you prep dinner for example so you can multitask. Most people work full time, they still have to help.

Statistics show school should only account for 40% of learning. So that means they should be getting 60% outside school. That's everything from sitting down studying, to museums, documentaries, general discussions, to walking in woods to find certain things.

You can't expect many children to do well at 12 without outside input.*

This is exactly what we had to do. DS is hopelessly disorganised and if we hadn't been on his back re homework, packing his rucksack, revising, etc., he'd just not have done it and arrived at school with no books.

BUT, it doesn't last forever, it's a matter of instilling the routine and discipline. Our DS has just finished year 9 and we've been very much "hands-off" this year leaving him to it and with just the odd hiccup, he's now absolutely fine.

I really don't see how moving to a different school would help. If he won't do homework at school 1, why would he do it at school 2?

Rather than nagging, you need to find something that will help him self-motivate.

'The wifi will be turned back on when you show me your completed homework' is always a good one

Also, completely unexpected 'rewards' after the fact go down well. They show that you recognise and appreciate their efforts, without having to be bribed into it. For example, 'I'm really impressed with your efforts with homework this week, would you like to choose a takeaway tonight as a little treat?' sort of thing.