Yr 6 SATS Support the Teachers?

[lupino]

Im just wondering, now that the teachers are going to ballot on boycotting the SATS, whether and how we can support them? There seem to be rational arguments both for and against SATS but, in my view, the teachers are best placed to judge what is best for our children - when they are not being pressurised by the powers that be to produce quantifiable results. So - lets give the people best placed to judge some real clout by backing them up. The question then becomes how best do we do this?

I can't take anything you say seriously bibbitybobbityyhat as you can't even spell famous song lyrics properly.

trying The NUT cannot "force through" anything - they are not the Government in power!

But, alongside their motions to direct the executive to act in relation to "privatisation" and "baseline assessment", there were motions directing the Executive to act in relation to other, non- educational, issues.

local.teachers.org.uk/templates/asset-relay.cfm?frmAssetFileID=14400

If the Executive are being asked to spread themselves and resources so thin to address all of those different issues, then it's less likely they'll succeed in making changes in any of them, surely ? And, to outside observers, it appears to be an attack on "the government" from all angles, rather than concern about specific educational matters.

Why aren't the NUT focused solely on the educational issues, rather than matters that other Unions are addressing?

IME SATs are totally useless. The whole of year 6 is wasted, all the children do is learn to pass exams ALL BLOODY YEAR. None of the local secondary schools (8 within a 3 mile radius) which are a mix of comprehensive and partially selective use SAT scores in any form in year 7. They all have their own CATs either at the end of year 6 or at the beginning of year 7.

Those say but what is the alternative ....what was there before SATs? Teachers and parents knowing what areas children exceeded in and know the areas that needed work. Teachers would still have knowledge of levels but would cater more towards the individual as they do in non-SAT years.

It's pass/fail in the sense that a pupil will have to retake the test if they fail in the January of their year 7. So it will have a big impact on their first term at the secondary school and how they are setted.

Luckily, this will not apply to current year 6, (from next year onwards though) given that, as far as I can see, a huge number of them will fail. What else can you expect if you test them on a new curriculum they have only been studying since September when the test assumes they have been working on this stuff for three years.

IME SATs are totally useless. The whole of year 6 is wasted, all the children do is learn to pass exams ALL BLOODY YEAR.

I disagree.

My DD is consolidating her basic maths and learning how to answer word based questions. She is improving how pick information out of a text. She is improving her grammar knowledge (a bit). She is improving her spelling.

Test taking technique is a minor part of what she is learning. If she is improving results in practice tests it is mainly because she is improving her basic groundings in Maths and English.

(That said I would prefer that less time was going on grammar, and that the scoring for the tests hadn't changed. I would also prefer that as a L3 child she wasn't being faced with L6 questions.)

Also this year she has done science, history, PE, cycling etc. etc.

PrettyBrightFireflies I've had a quick scan through the document you have linked to. Which point addresses National Security as I can't find it.

Amazed that you don't think racism is relevant to education. Really?

TeenAndTween (That said I would prefer that less time was going on grammar, and that the scoring for the tests hadn't changed. I would also prefer that as a L3 child she wasn't being faced with L6 questions.)

This is my point exactly all those things you said that she is doing should be done within lessons anyway without the added pressure of a silly test that includes questions that most are set to fail. Does nothing for the individual except maybe demoralise them

Shipwrecked They have been studying new NC since start y5.

I may not like the changes. I may not agree with the new emphasis on grammar. I am also concerned with demoralising less able children like mine. But I don't believe that y6 is being spent 'teaching to the test'.

Also, I believe that without the SATs, DD wouldn't be getting the consolidation in maths and spelling she is getting. This is the same benefit that DD1 gained 6 years ago.

TeenAndTween Do the SATs test cover everything up to the end of year 6? If so what will your DC be taught after the test?

Ahh ok I suppose we have had different experiences Teen I found that there was a slow burn in the first term towards the tests, all guns blazing the second term and non stop revision for a few weeks after Easter until the SATs. Then 7 weeks of almost no academic learning. But I do understand that different schools do things differently

Which point addresses National Security as I can't find it.
The PREVENT strategy motion.

Amazed that you don't think racism is relevant to education. Really?
Racism is. Immigration isn't. The number of refugees being offered asylum isn't.

Of course, they all indirectly have an impact on the way in which teachers do their job, but so does every policy the Government proposes. Health policy, justice policy, finance policy. Does the NUT want to influence those, too?

If the NUT intends it's executive to fight on all battle fronts, then it's resources are going to be stretched too thin to make an impact on the issues that directly relate to education.

If the NUT fight every policy the government propose, then their credibility on matters of education will be weakened.

I don't know what she will be taught.
Hopefully they will continue to keep the Maths and English ticking over, possibly continuing to extend knowledge a bit too. My DD can't 'afford' to not do maths from mid-May to September.

Usually the other curriculum subjects, which tend to take a bit of a back seat in the first half of the summer term, will be back loaded onto the second half. So I would, for example, hope for more science.

I know the system isn't perfect. I also prefer the old tests to the new tests. But for my DC at least a 'consolidation' year where they don't try to learn loads of new stuff is in my opinion a Good Thing. I honestly believe that having the SATs forces the consolidation. It stops people conning themselves that children like mine have learnt stuff that in actual fact they covered but haven't retained.

voddie I really hope not. We shall see over the next term I guess ...

PrettyBrightFireflies somewhat confused as to why you think The PREVENT strategy motion is not relevent to education.

PrettyBrightFireflies If the NUT fight every policy the government propose I would expect any union I was a member of to fight any policy that had a detremental affect on me as a professional. I thought that was the whole point of unions.

Do note that the the document you have linked to does give very clear points outlining their position. Shame the goverment doesn't do the same with regards to the many changes they make to the education system.

I'm not entirely sure why you have taken such offence to the docuiment tbh.

trying the PREVENT Strategy is overseen by the Home Office with the intention of maintaining national security.

As part of that, there are elements that impact on the Education sector, which, alongside the finance and some other professions, are expected to implement specific aspects of it - but it is not an Education policy any more than it is an economic policy; the intended outcomes relate to National Security.

Oops lots of typos. Just as well I don't have to sit the yr6 SATs tests.

Oh I'm old school Jeremy and first heard Queen Bitch many decades ago pre-internet. I never had the desire to look up the lyrics of Hunky Dory because I felt I knew them all by heart. It wasn't until quite some time after I'd chosen my username that I realised I'd misspelled, but decided to leave it be as at that time I felt it was quite important to keep the same name on Mumsnet rather than nc all the time.

Still, at least you knew what I was getting at with my username, whereas I can't imagine what you're trying to do with yours.

PrettyBrightFireflies Interesting, so you think the NUT should only be able to speak out against Education Policies, rather than policies that affect education.

IME SATs are totally useless. The whole of year 6 is wasted, all the children do is learn to pass exams ALL BLOODY YEAR.

^^ this. Dd is in year 7. Her year 6 was a complete waste of time - stressful being pushed to achieve level 6s, extra maths classes including during the Easter holidays! (Which she didn't attend) - they had 5 English and 5 maths lessons per week. Plus she was bored having to go over and over basic grammar all the time - revising commas and so on. She's very creative - wrote her first book aged 10, has always been very conscientious and very keen to please at school, but she hated year 6. It actively turned her off education. So so sad at this age.

Now she is at grammar and she only has 3 x English and 3 x maths per week. Her learning is much broader and she does many more subjects. She is loving learning again.

DS is in year 4 and is a v different child to dd. He will hate year 6 even more than dd if the current focus on grammar and teaching to the test continues. I despair, I really do.

bibbitybobbityyhat, it doesn't take an English teacher to know that bobbity is spelt with one y. Its actually hard to think of a name on mumsnet that isn't taken. I chose my name because I placed a bet on him becoming leader of his party, wasn't expecting it to be free but it was and he did. Like you said, "it was quite important to keep the same name on Mumsnet".

so you think the NUT should only be able to speak out against Education Policies, rather than policies that affect education.

I think they can speak out about whatever their membership directs them to.

What they choose to speak out about will impact on public opinion.

Oh! that extra y? that old thing? I had to add it when I re-registered with a new email and password last year after Jeffrey-Gate. I couldn't keep my previous bibbitybobbityhat. Hope that explains.

PrettyBrightFireflies What they choose to speak out about will impact on public opinion.

As demonstrated recently:

twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=nicky%20morgan%20newsnight