Please can we have a non-fighty thread about the advantages/disadvantages of independent schools....

[insertfeistynicknamehere]

I attended one myself but it was a long time ago.

Been looking round and keep seeing references to "dodgy independents"
what are these?

Where we live there are excellent state schools but I have no experience of this at secondary, it seems quite scary - DC attend a state village one-form entry school

My oldest is only 8 so it's a fair way off yet but still...
Promise am not a goady fucker btw.

I don't want teachers to take part in local events unless they want to. But I want my children to. I want them to go to Scouts and drama club with children from other local schools. I want them to have a sense of belonging.

I hear Mr law is exceedingly nice bloke

So can you not have a sense belonging if you don't go to your local scouts or drama club neither if which we have locally by the way, the nearest scouts are 15 miles away and I guess a drama club would be the same.

I think a lot of people think being middle class means wanting your children to learn classical musical instruments and play in orchestras, learn a bit of Latin and at least one modern foreign language, preferably two, take all the EBacc subjects at GCSE, take academic A-levels, go on to a respected university, then enter a reasonably respectable profession (eg doctor, dentist, solicitor, accountant) like your parents.

The comp kids IMO have the advantage of having mixed with people from a wider range of backgrounds and grown up as part of a community.

Again, it depends where you live and on the school. At our local comp in Cornwall you are certainly part of the local community, but a wide range of backgrounds? Absolutely not!

Well, it's a bit difficult to have a sense of belonging if you go to school 30 miles away, leave at 7 in the morning and get back at 7 at night 6 days a week.

And most of us don't actually live in rural fastnesses. I consider myself pretty rustic, but we're only 5 miles from the nearest town.

happygardening - why are you bothered by what other people want and what is important to other people? Some people like to "feel part of a community" and "take part in their community" and other people don't. Just think of Linda Snell in the Archers. It's because community is important to some people that they volunteer to run scout packs, or host parish council meetings, or run May Fairs in the local High Street, or put on community plays, or become a trustee of the local almshouses, or become a JP. I'm really glad some people are like that. It's also lucky not everyone is, or not everyone who wants the chance to be able to participate, could.

A few more people like that would be nice, though... Fewer and fewer people are willing to do things like run the scout pack, etc, and they do actually mean a lot to a lot of people.

Suzie Mr Law was honestly a bit of a twat when he was 14, but can't blame him for that! Obviously he got better....

It was a bit disappointing that the staff at Alleyn's were so star struck. You'd think they'd be used to it after the first year or two.

I just get annoyed about the idea that you can only be part of your community if you send your child to their local state school, scouts, drama club and tiddlywinks club, that all communities are stuffed with state school teachers organising or participating in local events and that MC parents should send their children to state schools preferably failing state schools so that they can use their many skills and connections to turn them into outstanding ones thus benefitting both their children and disadvantaged children.
Where are these wonderful communities? I have lived in many places over the years both rural and urban firstly I don't recognise this idyllic model so many talk about and secondly I don't know a single MC parent who has the time or motivation to get that involved in a school failing or not.
Back in the real world most parents desire a school where their children will be happy, receive a stimulating the education that wil stay with them for life, develop essential skills for whenever they go out into the real world and achieve what they are capable of achieving, some of us are lucky enough to be able to pay for this if we feel that this is the best way our children can achieve these aims.

"
I just get annoyed about the idea that you can only be part of your community if you send your child to their local state school, scouts, drama club and tiddlywinks club, that all communities are stuffed with state school teachers organising or participating in local events and that MC parents should send their children to state schools preferably failing state schools so that they can use their many skills and connections to turn them into outstanding ones thus benefitting bot"

Well, you can stop getting annoyed because nobody is saying that.

Happy - the OP asked for opinions about advantages and disadvantages of private schools. So this thread shows that people who choose schools outwith their local community - like you - don't see the community issue as significant. And those that choose a local state school sometimes value the community aspect. Not really suprising. Different parents value different things.

But I don't see how anyone can dispute that comps are part of the community in a way that private schools are not. Comps are open to everyone in the local area. Private schools are not. Some people tjink that matters. Others don't.

That's just what you think and feel, though, isn't it, happy? You don't have to take it as a personal criticism if other people think and feel differently and perceive things differently to you. If someone else doesn't feel like part of their community unless they are volunteering in it, you can't tell them their feelings are all wrong, just because you don't feel that way!

Meantime to add that I am very much part of my small community, but I dont run scout packs, host parish council meetings, take part in local plays or God help us run May Fairs in our local high street. I walk my dogs daily in my neighbourhood and say hello to everyone I meet, I try to do most of my shopping in my tiny local shop, and buy my stamps from my post office and eat in new rather nice cafe.
There are lots of different way to be part of your community, you don't just have to send your children to the local state school/scout group/be in the local play.

That really doesn't mean it's wrong to take part in your local community by going to the local school, though, does it? You're being very defensive, happygardening. Have you been made to feel unwelcome in your local community, or something?!

Now,being forced to take part in your local community events - that's definitely not fun!

My friends are very lucky who have all their 3 children go to private as his firm pays for them. The kids still work really hard, participating in various extra curr activities-they are not middle class, they still have to work very hard for their standard of life. I am planning to send my kids to private and planning to pay for them via my income from my job, I am not even senior or anywhere top, not middle class at all. Middle or first class or us working class(I think our neighbors who have their kids at private are working class to since if one stop working then they cant afford 2 kids go to private at the sametime) for selective private we all want the same thing, pay for the quality of academic and care. If we are not happy with the service then we could always go to local comp, its free and none selective> easy choice!!!

Who says in local comp there isnt class acts or bully? I am sure it happens everywhere. I am sure if I pay for private then if it happens the level of response will be worth the money paid, if not I will go to the free local comp...ofcourse.

I agree mostly everything Happygarden is saying and I am much appreciated for her honesty. Private school doesnt do less contribution to the local community(or dare I say even more as they have more resources to do so). They study in the area so contributing to the area's community where they study is also a lovely gesture why they must contribute to their home council. I am even hoping my children could do a year unpaid volunteer somewhere in the world before Univ then whats wrong???

I don't think we're talking about schools contributing to the community particularly, are we? Aren't we talking about kids being part of their community?

? I wasn't aware being middle class meant only needing one income to afford a private school, or not having to work hard to afford your standard of living. Those are new definitions to me! I thought it was more to do with having a steady profession...

I'm not sure it makes a big difference community wise. Children like mine who aren't from wealthy areas aren't going to suddenly become hermits. And whether they go to a good state in their nice area or a private, kids from wealthy areas will still mix with the same circle at home.

And I hate to break it to you, but generally international organizations really don't want 18 year old kids from any sort of school volunteering for them- even private school kids.

Yes, but you encounter the same argument there, BertrandRussell - are kids not part of their local community if they buy their sweets in the local shop and talk to people when they walk the dog in their school holidays? Do they have to have local friends to be part of the community? Or just local acquaintances? Are you not in fact part of the local community if you are known as the local recluse who never cuts his grass and won't give back your football if you accidentally kick it into his garden? Community means different things to different people and in different contexts. The more a community means to you, emotionally, the more you are likely to be involved in what goes on in it, whether that is the school community as a separate thing from home, or your all-encompassing community. But you are still part of a community and contribute to its general atmosphere even if you don't participate much.

I doubt most people would pay for a school whose ethos was not to bother to join in too much with anything, though, so most people clearly do understand the positive aspects of community spirit and a sense of belonging, even if they don't want to put it into practice in their own backyard in any way other than being polite and not bothering anyone.

bertrand you are very wrong about internships.

WRT community, my DC are part of it, in as much as they live there and have over the years attended various clubs and played for local teams etc.

But actually I've fostered an outward looking ethos in them. Both in terms of work, civic responsibility and belonging.

Going to a school with people who are not the same ones you see in your road, or at scouts or whatever has been an integral part of that.

We see that as a positive. Others a negative.

Bert: "even private school kids": hahaha, when you get out of uk then who cares which secondary school did you go to? As long as you can pay for the trip, fit for the job and have ethics for it. Even planning to send my kids to private I havent and will never consider " even private school kids" are better than anyone