SW London Independents - where do the "bottom" 80% end up?

[Shirleycantbe]

My DD is in year 6 and preparing for the 11+ in SW London. A daunting process not helped by the fact that she has processing speed issues. She is however very bright - top 5% and higher in standardised tests (eg CAT). So we are just hoping that this will be recognised and some allowance made on the basis of her ed psych report.

As part of my obsessive panic research, I've been looking through the mumsnet threads on the whole 11+ topic and secondary schools in this area and all I read seems to imply that even the slightly "less" scarily academic options (from this I'm assuming Surbiton High/Emanuel/Ibstock/St Catherines) still look for kids in the top 10-20% of the cohort. Stories of children with level 5 and 6 SATs not even getting interviews etc etc.

Where does this leave the rest of the children in the year?! I am personally interested because my younger DD (yr 3) is not top 10%. Maybe top 25% ish at this stage. Will she seriously get in to none of these private schools? Or is this categorisation of which schools cream off which % of kids by ability somehow flawed? I know it is getting more and more competitive but it seems insane if the majority of children sitting the tests are basically wasting their time...

fab info cake. thanks.

I know quite a few parents who have sent their children to State after Prep - BUT there is a huge pressure on places, and some children do not get offered any school on "places day". Although I believe everyone gets offered one eventually.
The academic standards of some of the private schools has increased markedly in the last 20 years. But also other schools are expanding - either becoming co-ed or going from Prep to 16/18. However this does lag behind the demand in places.

OP if there is any circumstance in which you would consider a State school, you need to get an application in quickly (and you may be surprised who else is secretly applying as a back up).

The Rowans offers list is particularly helpful. They have 38 girls but 2 are moving to the state sector and did not sit any 11+exams leaving 36.

If you take Surbiton as a mid line school, 21 received offers from them. Of the 14 that didn't 10 received offers at "better" schools using the Telegraph 2015 tables, so maybe didn't sit SHS for whatever reason. The remaining 4 got offers from an assortment of St Theresas, Notre Dame, Manor House - but everyone got in somewhere.

mummytime is right. You should be filling out the state application forms NOW. You don't have to take the place, but it costs you nothing and if it all goes wrong you will be in a better position than if you hadn't.

That's really helpful info cake - especially if Rowans is non selective

Shirley, a couple of observations...I hope I am not going to make matters worse as I know there are no real assurances from any of us until you are through the other end!

Your DD is in a prep, is bright but has slow processing (at this point in time). Still in Oct, and this will get better as she gets more familiar with the format of tests/questions/where to seek out the marks etc. I hope your prep is focusing on these.

As your DD IS bright, your prep head's report will be important. I know some schools will make a hard line cut off, but for others there will be some arbitrary potion mixing that will include the wider profile of the pupil, including the reference that you are fortunate to have vs others from non-preps/state that may not be so comprehensive.

I am about to contradict what I have said in other threads that only you as Parent can judge how many exams to sit is right for your child, but I am slightly concerned at the creep increase you have (and you haven't reached Nov application cut off yet!). 7, if individual sittings, are a lot for a child to sit, especially given the added pressure on her processing speed. Fatigue may kick in on the latter exams which will be counter-productive and could leave her with a negative view on the whole thing.

Is it your Prep head who is asking you to cast a wider net or your view to? I would keep engaged with him/her and agree where the gaps are at this point in time and how you can both cover so she grows in confidence from now to end Dec, not destroy it by not feeling good enough. Let her innate intelligence come through on what she can answer well, not on what she misses. Focus on her comprehension as an example where long answers are not required. How creative can her writing get, even if she cannot complete the recommended no. of recommended pages...etc.

A good prep school rarely fails to get a child into a well matched school as cake has really usefully demonstrated, so get some honest feedback from them now on a joint strategy to work towards.

I seem to like the word recommended today sorry.

My DD sat 4 and she was very tired. I am not sure what you are meant to do when sitting 7 or more is the norm in your area.

Thanks ealingwestmum - I appreciate the input. School are very supportive of DD and as well as head's report the head teacher has actually phoned several of the schools himself to communicate the issue and will write an additional covering letter for her ed psych report.

She is doing practice papers at school and sometimes finishes the maths, rarely the English - when given extra time to finish she scores extremely highly.

The issue of number of schools is really tricky. It's a combination of factors - eg keeping a school on the list which we might otherwise rule out because it does VR/NVR which could work in DDs favour. But the preferable equivalent is a much easier journey so we want to give it a go. Putting an academic school back in, on the advice of our headmaster. Keeping another great school on the list because our head advises that it might well give extra time - otherwise we would have ruled it out on the basis that it is insanely oversubscribed.

I suspect we will apply to all 7 and make a call closer to the time - especially if any of the schools DO allow extra time. The usual strategy of 1-2 stretch schools, 1-2 comfortable and 1-2 back up doesn't seem to help because we are being told DD should absolutely go to one of the very academic options, her teachers are horrified when I suggest "softening" the list - but with the timing issue and no knowledge of how the schools will view her I feel forced to try as many as possible and hope that one of them feels DD would fit in.

If I had some real hard info as to whether it's all about the exam result on the day and there's no interest in a child with a speed issue - even one that will be much less impactful once she learns to touch type - OR it's true what they say that they look at the child as a whole and her potential - then I could revise the list much more easily. I just dont want to let DD down - or put her under too much pressure (as if this whole stupid process wasnt enough)

Your prep school should be able to tell you if they think your child will get extra time or not? Surely they have been through this before with other pupils

Are you applying to use a laptop in the exams?

They told us she would get extra time - and on the basis of this we didn't pursue the touch typing route. But it turns out they were wrong (guidelines have changed over the last couple of years and DD not longer qualifies - she would have done previously).

Not ideal...

Understand Shirley. It's a crazy process. Sounds like you have all bases covered. I know it's of no consolation, and we've all got anecdotal stories, but last year a girl from my DD's school (non-prep) did not finish her St Paul's papers, but got in. She received a lovely offer letter highlighting her strengths but more importantly, her weaknesses that the school would support her on. My DD said she was always the slowest worker in her year, but she was super bright.

Equally there are stories from outraged parents who's daughter did not get interview at SPGS, failed to get into G&L, wait listed for NHEHS but got into LEH. Anyone that knew her would not have guessed that outcome...

Keep going.

Thanks westealingmum - just that first story gives me hope!

My username comes from doing the 11+. Tis really horrid. I felt really resentful about how the whole process forced me into judging my child. We're North London rather than SW, but I think it's all pretty similar.
a) we only did three. All v selective (not Westminster, but one tier down). I felt strongly that we weren't going to pay or travel a long way to a school that didn't offer something great.
b) because there was a good chance he wouldn't get into any, we took our state applications seriously and bigged them up as great alternatives. I still think they were - you're better off with a decent state on your doorstep than a second-rate private that's miles away. And most London state schools are more than decent.
c) I can only agree with the PP about the irrelevance of head's reports for the simple reason that my dc didn't have any done on time and then when they did, well after the exams, they were done by an utterly useless, unenthusiastic teacher (school didn't have a leadership team at the time).
d) you can't tell which is your favourite until the offers are on the table. The process also sells some schools to you. Our obvious choice was so needlessly cruel to the applicants that it put me off.
e) all the children in y7 - state and private - seem to be getting on fabulously.

oh and three exams then three interviews were utterly exhausting.

Some kids can do' exams better than others - we saw boys bounce out with buzzy excitement, or bring comforted in floods of tears after exams DS sat.

He enjoyed them and the interviews as he is quite young for his age and still at that 'showoffy' stage that some kids are before they get all self aware and shy.

Our school was quite good at suggesting schools for DS, and agreed with our ideas. I really think that the interviews play a large part in tbe proces. DS is a very enthusiastic kid with lots of genuine interetests- not sure if people really do tutor their kids to say that they adore early lute music, write sonnets in their spare time and enjoy reading Karl Marx in German then translating it into Sanskrit.

From DS' primary school 2 years ago, everyone applying to KGS from the middle set was offered a place (about 10 children). If they had a "general" interview (which takes less than 10 mins) that meant an offer. There were also Maths or English interviews if a candidate was borderline in one of these papers. I don't think it's as scary as all the hype - the school offers from its waiting list every year.

Shirley. As your DS sounds very bright with some processing issues, have you considered LU? Yes the maths paper is tough and they have to write a story, but the comprehension is all in multi choice format which can really help a child demonstrate their understanding without being hampered by having to write in complete sentences, etc. and they place a lot of emphasis on the interview. Unless it's all changed?

Thanks Minoula - yes! That's on our list for exactly those reasons - although the info that 1100 ish children apply makes it feel like buying a lottery ticket...

LU also have a really good learning support department so if your DD did go there she'd benefit from their input.

All the DC at our SW London state primary who applied to independent schools (about 90% - nearest state secondaries dire) got in somewhere. Since everyone applies to several schools, there are enough places to go round.

Sorry Shirley -just saw you have a DD not DS!

Having gone through all this with DS1, I know how stressful and confusing it can be. At the age of 7, DS had an ed psych assessment which showed his VR and NVR were very high (similar to your DD), but his speed processing was on something like the 20th centile. At 7 plus he got no offers. By 11 plus, his speed processing had risen to average and he got offers from LU, Hampton and KCS.

No child will have a completely even profile, of course, but I think a lot may depend on how wide the variances are.

Also, for what it's worth, I really would recommend doing no more than 4 schools. It really is exhausting, and a child with processing diffs will expend more energy than most to stay focused in the tests. It is so easy to panic, but if your child is in a prep they should be able to advise you on schools that are the best fit for your DD.

The numbers at LU are scary, but it may be slightly easier for girls to get in as many will also be sitting L&G and SPGS and may prefer those - if that's any help!

Thanks so much Minoula, it sounds as though your DS has a very, very similar profile to my DD. It's massively reassuring to hear that he got offers to such great schools even with this issue.

sorry - clueless. which school is LU - what does LU stand for? sounds like it could be good for my dd.

Latymer Upper