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Secondary education

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Original poster

SW London Independents - where do the "bottom" 80% end up?

119 replies

Shirleycantbe · 19/10/2015 13:37

My DD is in year 6 and preparing for the 11+ in SW London. A daunting process not helped by the fact that she has processing speed issues. She is however very bright - top 5% and higher in standardised tests (eg CAT). So we are just hoping that this will be recognised and some allowance made on the basis of her ed psych report.

As part of my obsessive panic research, I've been looking through the mumsnet threads on the whole 11+ topic and secondary schools in this area and all I read seems to imply that even the slightly "less" scarily academic options (from this I'm assuming Surbiton High/Emanuel/Ibstock/St Catherines) still look for kids in the top 10-20% of the cohort. Stories of children with level 5 and 6 SATs not even getting interviews etc etc.

Where does this leave the rest of the children in the year?! I am personally interested because my younger DD (yr 3) is not top 10%. Maybe top 25% ish at this stage. Will she seriously get in to none of these private schools? Or is this categorisation of which schools cream off which % of kids by ability somehow flawed? I know it is getting more and more competitive but it seems insane if the majority of children sitting the tests are basically wasting their time...

OP posts:
TeddTess · 19/10/2015 17:34

KGS is a funny one and often throws a few anomalies.

i know of 3 last year who didn't get KGS but did get Hampton/LEH. the exam was a bit weird.
others got KGS but didn't get the others.

nvcontrolfreak · 19/10/2015 17:47

Surbiton High/Emanuel/Ibstock/St Catherines do not look for top 10%. The only way they'll get them is with fat scholarship. These are really the 25-30% of the cohort (based on standardised ability measurements, e.g. CATs, not top x% in a certain school).

In our non-selective prep school Emanuel/Surbiton High/St Catherines would all be choices for middle set. Streatham and Clapham would fall into this category.

The top of the bottom set/bottom of middle set - Woldingham

The bottom set would be thinking about Portland Place, More House, Royal Russel, St Georges (boarding) in Ascot

There are plenty of schools around

And I don't believe KGS would release the precise percentages on results to pupils who didn't get it. That's like opening a floodgate. So I wouldn't put much faith in the "friend's child got 80% and 89%" and didn't get in. The fact I don't believe if doesn't make it untrue, of course, so if those are true, you can't still have an explanation - e.g. the kid could have gotten 50% on VR. Or couldn't string a sentence together at interview. We don't have all the information...

chickindude · 19/10/2015 18:18

Totally true it was in fact my sisters DC. I phoned on her behalf.
They were very nice to me ( especially as my own DC are at the school)but said decision was purely on exam marks others did better, I specifically asked for the results & they were given without quibble.
For what it's worth my kids & my sisters were state primary.
God I have probably said too much, hope I'm not recognised.

TeddTess · 19/10/2015 18:20

maybe it was the VR? DD said it wasn't like normal VR

GinandJag · 19/10/2015 18:23

St Georges Ascot is not really academically selective, just economically.

TeddTess · 19/10/2015 18:24

how does it compare to The Marist in Ascot GinandJag?

GinandJag · 19/10/2015 18:30

Marist isn't really selective either.

St George's is ultra posh and has a boarding culture (day school till 6.30pm). They play lacrosse. They have girls who are polo internationals. Their socials are with Eton. You don't get this at Marist.

Most independent schools have assessment days but this doesn't mean they are selective.

TeddTess · 19/10/2015 18:31

ah ok thanks.

Ancienchateau · 19/10/2015 18:35

We also got the marks for one of our DC who didn't get into KGS so yes, it does happen. They also told us it was results only based. I believe this is also the case at most SW London selectives despite what well-meaning heads tell you. WHS for example had a cursory 2 minute interview with my DD. No reports from current school so they knew nothing about her. From this I would conclude, again, purely results based.

The fact they rejected your sister's DC for those scores chickindude is terrifying. Makes me very pleased to be out of it all now but, as I said in my previous post, everyone seems to get somewhere. I don't know anyone who didn't this year.

sw15mum · 19/10/2015 18:46

All such a nightmare!
Ancienchateau- did your DD have to do the Group Assessment thing at Wimbledon High? I wonder how much they take that into account.
I don't know how any of these schools work out who they take anyway. I know someone who turned down KGS for Ibstock which in Mumsnet world would be considered lower in the pecking order and someone who chose Emmanuel rather than Putney High. How they decide how many places to offer must be a fine art....

Original poster
Shirleycantbe · 19/10/2015 19:02

It all seems like such a lottery! We've been advised by prep school to go for the "top" choices academically for DD1 - but then again they told us she would get extra time in the exams - which is now transpires she won't. Despite a 50 percentile gap between her VR/NVR and her processing speed, she's not quite bad enough to qualify under new regs that have come in for GCSEs and which the schools now use for 11+.

So I have little faith in the school being able to predict where she will get in and don't know how the top schools would view her "spiky profile" - if they are so oversubscribed why would they take a risk with a child like my DD. Confused So I still have 7 schools on the list because I just can't sense how it will play out. Not ideal.

OP posts:
jeanne16 · 19/10/2015 19:10

I work in one of these SW independent secondaries and I can tell you that the only thing they really care about is the exam result. They may tell you they interview to look at the 'whole pupil' but that is nonsense really. They interview just to try to check there isn't a real issue with regards behaviour.

Regarding how many places to offer - this is one of the biggest challenges for the schools. They occasionally over offer and are then stuck with a bulge year. If they under offer and give lots of waiting list places, they often find parents get insulted and will take a firm offer from a different school even if it wasn't originally their preferred choice.

Original poster
Shirleycantbe · 19/10/2015 19:14

Jeanne16 - is that true even with an ed psych report and covering letter from Headmaster detailing CAT scores and high ability? If so then my list of schools to apply to is back down from 7 to 2.

OP posts:
TeddTess · 19/10/2015 19:24

have you seen 7 you like / are accessible?

do the 2 you think you will get plus a middle and a stretch/dream one.

lasermum · 19/10/2015 19:27

Manor House and st Theresa in the Effingham area are good options for the less academic dd. I know Manor House has a very nurturing supportive environment.

HeighHoghItsBacktoWorkIGo · 19/10/2015 20:55

Take heart shirley your DD, along with the other children, will grow and develop a lot before she sits the entrance exams in January of year 6. It's more than a year away. She will around 15% older!

We gave DD1 an exam from "easy" school at the beginning of year 5 "just to see." Her score was terrible. We thought there was no hope. 18 months later she had improved markedly.

Original poster
Shirleycantbe · 19/10/2015 21:02

Thanks HeighHogh - but she IN Year 6!!! It's all too close for comfort....

OP posts:
HeighHoghItsBacktoWorkIGo · 19/10/2015 22:09

Oh! Blush

What I said still applies though. We weren't sure she would get in anywhere until November of year 6, and then we thought probably only the "safety school". Dd1 kept improving over December and did really well in the end. Every month did add something. We did about two old test papers a week. We kept going until the last exam was over. (In the final months she probably spent 4 hours a week on it, poor thing. But she got into her dream school in the end.)

I wish you all the best of luck. I think a school can be fantastic, even if it isn't accepting only the top 5%, or whatever guff people are caught up in. I think there is a lot of hyperbole and hysteria around the w hole process. It's nearly impossible to keep a cool head.

lhrmum · 19/10/2015 22:10

Thank you for asking this question! I am constantly amazed at the number of parents that insist their DS is headed to one of the top tier schools ... Not everyone is getting in to those schools - so there must be a place for the wonderfully (high) average child.

Original poster
Shirleycantbe · 19/10/2015 22:34

Thanks HeighHogh! Smile I'm desperately trying to keep calm and believe she will get in somewhere where she will be happy at the end of this brutal slog!

OP posts:
jeanne16 · 20/10/2015 07:38

Shirley. I will need to back peddle a bit from what I said. I obviously don't have experience of all your 7 schools. I don't even know which they are, although I could probably guess. I only know the schools I have worked in and know they want the most academically able pupils they can get. Given that this is the surest way to getting top GCSE and A level results, which is what all parents are looking at, I would have thought this was inevitable!

SelfRaisingFlour · 20/10/2015 08:39

My children are at state primary in SW London and there is a lot of tutoring going on, but I haven't heard of any children not getting a place at private school if they can pay the fees.

nowirehangers · 20/10/2015 09:34

I think there's mahoosive snobbery around the "top" schools, and I know a few families who say without a flicker of irony that they've decided their child won't get into St Paul's, or wherever, so therefore they're sending them to boarding school, which are easier to get into and have more cachet.

It seems they simply can't hold their heads up in society if their child goes to a so-called 2nd-division day school. And, of course, state education is totally out of the question. 'Tis a world gone totally bonkers

HeighHoghItsBacktoWorkIGo · 20/10/2015 09:36

I do know a few in my area, but their parents only applied to 2 schools, and didn't realise that these schools had become more competitive over the last 5 years. It's important to have a fall back option, just in case.

cakeisalwaystheanswer · 20/10/2015 09:39

All of the children at preps get in somewhere so obviously these schools are not only taking the top 20%. The following are single sex preps so obviously they are focused on girls senior schools.

Rowans Prep in Claygate which has a very wide ability intake

www.rowanprepschool.co.uk/Portals/0/Documents/Year%206%20Offers%20Chart%202014-2015.pdf

Old Vicarage School a similar intake

www.oldvicarageschool.com/admissions/destination-of-leavers/

and Holy Cross prep which does have an entrance exam

www.holycrossprepschool.co.uk/page/?title=Senior+School+Destinations+%2D+2015&pid=469

and Bute House which is mixed entry but very competitive

www.butehouse.co.uk/images/assets/static/publications/moving-on/senior-school-places/11-plus-examination-results-2015.pdf