King's Scholarship Exams

[Luckyone1]

Hello Everyone,

We visited Eton recently and my DS, as he is not registered, was advised to take the KS exams next April for the entrance at age 13. I understand this is a relevantly short period of time as normally one needs at least 2 years preparation. However, DS was so motived after the school tour at Eton and decided that that was 'the' school for him. DS is bright and doing very well academically. Hence, I am trying to explore the possibilities of tuitions for the KS exams. Should he move to a prep school for it, or get private tutors and carry on with current schooling?

Any advices are sincerely appreciated.

Even if you could find a prep prepared to take on a new pupil mid-way through Year 8 and move him more or less immediately, you're only looking at a term's teaching time before the exams. And he'd need to settle in, and deal with the disruption of leaving one set of friends and arriving into a well-established group, both of which might reduce, not accelerate his academic progress. Ditto if topics are not covered in the same order.

So if he really wants this, then a tutor is probably better. But you need to find people who between them can cover all the subjects for all the papers he'll need to take, and who know the level they need to reach. Have you already started asking around?

I have spent these couple of days on researching on this matter since the visit to Eton. I agree with you about the potential disruption. But would you say that a prep school with a track record on KS is a safe way to go down? I had no idea about private tuition until now. The key is to find the reputable ones and cover all papers as you said. And possibly in Bristol area if we have to travel to.

OP What sort of school is your DS at currently?

There are a few top preps which are well known for preparing boys for schools like Eton. I would imagine that finding a place for your son at this stage is going to be almost impossible, and I think that even if there was a place, they would be reluctant to offer much in the way of a guarantee of a place. I agree that tutoring is probably your best bet.

Past KS papers are available on the Eton website here. You may want to have a look at them with your son, and any possible tutors.

I have contacted a few of them and am waiting for reply.

We had a quick look last night as he had a lot homework to do. He reckoned that the maths was easy. We will have a look the papers for all the subjects by the weekend.

I understand there are some experienced tutors specialising in preparing for KS. Do you know any at all?

You could try asking the people in the Admissions office if they can recommend tutors. I also found this MN thread from a couple of years ago, there may be some useful info there.

Thank for the thread. I did ask the admissions office and the answer was 'No'.

"But would you say that a prep school with a track record on KS is a safe way to go down?"

I think it's doubtful. Teaching the syllabus for the exams will have started at the beginning of year 7 at the latest, and I just don't think you can join in with only a term and a bit to go and expect to slot in smoothly or gain much benefit.

Also I'd be surprised if a school would accept a pupil so very late on, but I suppose there's no harm in enquiring.

I'm afraid I've no idea which if any preps near Bristol regularly send boys to Eton (let alone whether they enter by CE or KS route).

Apart from the London prep schools the best prepared for KS from their consistent track record are the Dragon and Summer Fields in Oxford. There won't be any nearer to Bristol but basically an exceptional boy (especially if he finds the second maths paper easy) has a good chance of a KS from most places.
It might be worth contacting the Oxford prep schools since if your DS is a real candidate then they may well find space for him (for 1 1/2 terms) plus their assessment will help you know what level your DS is at and his realistic chances.

I think syllabus is less of a concern for KS than for CE, actually, so if he's really up for it, why not give it a try? The one place where syllabus is a big deal is the languages: if he doesn't already have one to a high level there's no chance of doing one of those papers well in April/May, so he'd have no choice of optional paper, and had better be good at essays as well as maths. They do have some words about not having to be equally good at everything, though.

Maths B is a little deceptive in that if you have unlimited time that's one thing, but to finish the paper you have to do each question in 9 minutes, which is not that easy! I'd love to know what kind of marks successful scholars do actually get. Any mothers of KSs here who could comment?

If go done the route of private tuitions, can any private tutors do the job or has to be those specialising in KS? Any recommendations? Thanks.

Eton2017, DS' exams last term resulted almost all subjects at the top few of his year in school. His French, Spanish and Latin were at either first or second place, and couple of them were full mark. He's very good with languages. But then I don't know what the levels of those exams were though his current school is a top school.

Lucky that is the question you need answering for languages, what level his present school is teaching them at. I think languages are one of the main areas where excellent accelerated teaching may make a big difference in attainement levels between similarly bright candidates. There will also inevitably be some bilingual candidates with a relative advantage for the MFLs. Your DS by hard work could at least improve his level with language tutors. I think he and you need to work out much extra time he has outside school for various tutors and extra work, taking into account that it would be self defeating to make a sizeable dent in the free time he has to develop his own reading or interest in say maths.

OP -- has your son been told he can take the KS exam even without having a conditional offer? I thought KS exam was only for boys with a conditional offer.

Luckyone1, I’m intrigued what hurricane wind had blown you up this Eton way out of the blue at this extremely late hour? I mean, once upon a time, not very long ago, parents were already preparing for Eton even before their son was born!

I know this is not of much help to your cause (sorry) but barring a miracle, it is almost impossible to win a King’s Scholarship at this very late stage with absolutely no prior preparations at all. I believe whoever that advised your son to take the KS exams probably meant well because that is the only way of gaining entry at age 13 seeing you have not registered your son before age 10½ and assuming your son is not eligible for the New Foundation Scholarship (for state school boys).

Advising to sit the KS exams is one thing but realistically succeeding in winning one is quite another thing. Please be under no illusions - the King’s Scholarship exams according to an Oxford don are the toughest for a 13-year-old s(he) has ever seen. The level is of an Oxbridge First Year standard. Quite a few Oxbridge graduates have said they couldn’t do some of the questions.

Potential KS winners would have been preparing for the exams for at least two years in a proven prep school. These same prep schools have more or less become feeder schools to College over the years. They are usually situated within a 60-mile radius (or less) within London. At the top of my head - Westminster Under School, Summer Fields, Papplewick, Dragon, Sussex House, etc.

In the last eight to ten years, increasing number of successful boys come from the Far East including Singapore, Thailand, Korea, Japan and China. Unless the rule changes, I foresee College being occupied by at least 50% ~ 75% in the next 25 years by boys from the Asian continent.

Coming back to your question, OP, I think it is totally pointless to move your son to a prep school for 1½ term. For a start, a proven prep school like those mentioned above would not be doing much teaching in the final term. This is a time for ironing out the creases that may still be lingering in a boy’s mind and to refine all that has been taught and learnt.

As for personal tutor, again, I don’t think this is of much good. Sorry! A personal tutor may be a specialist in his/her subject but it is very unlikely that s(he) would be up to scratch with the other subjects at KS level. I have often heard of this phenomenon of personal tutors specialising in KS exams but in real life, I’ve never met a single KS who has had a personal tutor. Let’s just remind ourselves what the examiners are looking for:

”the examiners are keen to reward boys who show real ability, even if in only a limited field.”

In short, a boy who needs a personal tutor for whichever subject sadly, has no “real ability”. Worse still, his life would be a misery if by a twist of fate he did find himself landed in College living in the midst of ferociously high-flying boys . But if you still want to try personal tutors, I wish you luck and hope a miracle does happen.

"OP -- has your son been told he can take the KS exam even without having a conditional offer? I thought KS exam was only for boys with a conditional offer."

Yes, you can take it with no conditional offer, as long as you register for the exam by the deadline.

Boys with conditional offers take it a) because they hope to be scholars (obviously) and b) if they do well enough, they'll be exempted from CE requirements.

Scholarships are the only route into Eton for those without a conditional offer.

There are +/- 14 KS per year.

Abriata - far as I can see, at the moment, or at least until now, they both did and didn't need a conditional offer.

It used to be that the KS was (amongst other things) a risky last chance for boys who, for whatever reason, did not take the yr 6 pre-test. At some stage it became a requirement for potential KS candidates (without conditional offers) to take a pre-test early in yr 9 to determine whether or not the KS was realistic. They were only allowed to take the scholarship exam if they passed the pre-test. So in a sense they also needed a conditional offer - just granted at a later date.

(I am certain that I read this in the last few years but the KS info is being rejigged and I can't find any reference to it currently. You or others here may know more about this than I ever possibly could.)

So it's probably the case that the OP's son will have to take a pre-test early next year.

I believe whoever that advised your son to take the KS exams probably meant well ...

I suppose it depends whether the answer was given as a routine response to a routine query in general by admin staff - not specific to this boy, or whether it was firm advice offered by teaching staff to this particular boy after some detailed assessment or report of his capabilities.

It's frustrating - her DS may well easily have been capable of getting a pre-test offer and working steadily towards CE/KS. He would have to be exceptional to make this last minute dash worth the stress.

I think we all agree that your DS would need to be exceptional to be successful at this stage having not been accelerated by an experienced prep school. Exceptional in maths / science and a highly creative or extremely well read writer. The essay questions are not answered to the level of a first year Oxbridge undergraduate but are open enough to allow highly able boys to shine.

'In short, a boy who needs a personal tutor for whichever subject sadly, has no “real ability”. '

I would disagree, if the tutoring is to ensure familiarity with type of exam and tips on showing ability in the way the markers are looking for.

If OP's DS really can do the maths papers well (in the time allowed) then he has the ability in that subject. But he'll need to sit at least 7 papers, and even if he's hoping for an offer based in maths brilliance, he'll still need to show well enough on all the other required ones. And if he's not had exposure to the style of exam before, then that's going in with a disadvantage. And tutoring might reduce or eliminate that.

Petenerase, it's a long story. After what had had happened in communicating with the school two years ago, I thought we had to leave it until the Six Form entry. However, the recent school tour has really sold it to DS, who felling love with it, loved everything he saw there and didn't want to wait for three years. So I agreed to explore the possibility though deep down I knew this was quite a 'Mission Impossible'!

The school did say they would assess him in January for whether take the KS. But it would be only based on academic remit though DS is an all rounder. Has anyone the experience of this assessment? Also any experience of Six Form entry?

OP if it's the late pre-test as I suggested above he will take the computerised test and have a brief interview. The third element will be a report from his current school.

(Or it could all be entirely different ...)

”They do have some words about not having to be equally good at everything, though.”

The exact words, Eton2017, are as follows:

’In most papers of the examination there is a wide range of questions, so that any clever boy has ample opportunity to prove his worth; the examiners are keen to reward boys who show real ability, even if in only a limited field.’

It seems to me those words have been there for as long as I can remember from time immemorial. But I would advise great caution here!

Just as all seasoned Medicine applicants to medical schools would tell you, all they are looking for are 3 A-Levels and some decent GCSE’s to meet their entry requirements. But in real life, you have cases with people having 4 As at A-Level and a full suit of straight As GCSE’s and still fail to gain an offer.

Far from showing (real) ability only in a limited field, all the KS’s I’ve known took the full 10 subjects of the King’s Scholarship exams - 4 compulsory subjects plus all 6 of the optional papers, though only 3 are required. Amazingly, the final grades achieved in all 10 papers are astoundingly high taking into consideration these papers would be of the level of an Oxbridge admissions standard for an 18-year-old according to this Oxford admissions tutor! What these 13-year-olds are achieving is pretty stunning!

”I'd love to know what kind of marks successful scholars do actually get. Any mothers of KSs here who could comment?”

I’ve managed to rummage through my computer hard-drive and found this from some years back. So as not to out myself, I’ve airbrushed some of the details including the grades of the compulsory papers (which one has to ace anyway). The object is to show the typical grades expected of the harder optional papers (Maths B included).

From the details given and assuming most things stay the same, a few things can be deduced from the King’s Scholarship exams in order to evaluate one’s chances of winning a KS:

1. 'Very few candidates are given an A+.'
   In other words, they don’t exist. I’ve never come across anyone who has one.

2. 'Approximately half the candidates in each subject are graded B-, BC or C'.
   Which tells me the other half (appx 75 boys out of a typical 150 in any annual cycle) are graded B or better OR worse than C.

3. Since 14 are awarded KS and 5 or 6 OS etc (total appx 20) it reasons that the rest i.e. 55 boys are graded worse than C. In conclusion, appx 130 boys out of a typical 150 annual cohort score no better than a B- in any given subject.

Thanks, peteneras, very interesting. I didn't know it was usual to take all the papers, though since they judge you on your best ones, I suppose it's a sensible strategy. Unless my memory is playing me false, though, I know of at least one KS who didn't take more than the required 3.

I don't suppose you remember how your DS had felt about the papers that led to those grades, e.g., whether he had done all the questions and believed his work to be correct, or whether he had left some parts undone? Without a yardstick, of course, B+ means nothing; one might have to do the entire paper with no more than two tiny slips to get that, or a good attempt at one question might suffice - the marking policy could be set however the markers decided.

I think your reasoning at the end is faulty, though, because it doesn't consider that boys need not perform evenly across the board. Suppose half the candidates on each paper score "well" (A, A- or B+ - let's stipulate that A+ doesn't exist :-) ) the other half "moderately" (B-,BC or C). Given a reasonable number of candidates whose scores on the different papers are a mixture of "well" and "moderately", it's easy for there to be few enough who score "well" on the compulsory papers and three optional ones for the roll to be formed of all and only those candidates. That is, from the information given, we can't deduce that anyone ever scores less than C (though of course they may).

Peteneras is mis interpreting the standard expected of the candidates from the inserted quote , being asked Oxbridge style question does not mean that candidates will be at the same level in their answers. I also know of successful candidates who did not take all papers. As you point out Eton17 it is a competitive exam and without knowing from experienced teachers what sort of marks their successful candidates were getting in their practice papers it is difficult to judge relative chances.

Grouch, thank for the information about the assessment. Any idea on what sort of questions at the computer test?

Also very interesting and informative discussions to read on. Thanks, everyone. However, it seems Sixth Form entry is rare as have not heard from anyone yet?