Eton

[Riversiderunner]

Our son is 8 (Year 4) and quite bright - not amazingly so, but pretty good. Best reader in his class, top set of maths, quite shy though, which holds him back. And appalling handwriting, but hopefully he's getting better.

He is currently at a good state primary. And I am wondering what his chances would be of getting into Eton.

Can anyone advise? I've got the Good Schools Guide and see they take some from state schools, though not many, and understand why that may be. I also know he'll need to do a couple of years post-primary before he goes to big school anyway.

I just wondered if I was mad thinking he might be able to, or if competition is so fierce that there's no way a child who hasn't been at a prep school can get in.

(I know quite a few OEs and I've got to say they're not exactly all of them the sharpest tools in the box. They're confident, charming, at ease, blah blah, but certainly not my cleverest friends, by a long chalk.)

On another note, would we be better off putting him into a private school for years 5 and 6 before he does the test Eton puts them through? Or should we leave him in his good and lovely state primary and hope that he does well in the test I think they offer for children from state schools.

If anyone has any thoughts I'd love to hear them!

No, you're not mad. Boys do get to Eton from state primary/secondary schools.

I would say that your observation about OEs that you know might not be all that relevant. Since 2002, all admissions have been through a highly competitive entrance procedure. The well-connected but dim are much less likely to slip through the cracks.

Of course, this means that Eton, as probably the best known school certainly in the UK, if not the world, is extremely popular choice for many 'amazingly' bright children from (increasingly) around the world. Don't let that put you off, but you (and more importantly your DS) should be realistic about your chances.

There are some very useful threads on mumsnet about entry to Eton and what kind of boys tend to thrive there. If you search for Eton, plenty of fairly recent information should show up. My grandson is off today for the computer-based assessment test and interview...

You may want to start by reading their website and prospectus from end to end - to dispel any misconceptions.

All the questions you've asked are fully covered there. As a pp has said, entry is very competitive - you cannot base the current intake on your adult friends.

You don't need any special preparation for the pre-test. And there is a clear route for state school pupils. The main question (beyond passing exams) is whether your DS would cope and thrive in a fiercely energetic boarding environment.

As the others have said have a look at the website, and go and have a look round. I don't think you would need to send him privately to prepare for the test, but if he won a place you would probably be better to send him to a school where he will take Common Entrance.

You mention that he is quite shy, which rings a bit of an alarm bell with me. Etonians are famed for their self assurance, but the school deliberately chooses boys who already have a lot of confidence to begin with. It is a fiercely competitive environment in every field, and boys are thrown into the deep end right from day one, and have to be able to manage themselves and their time in quite an adult manner.

Of course your DS is still young and this could change, but it might be worth also considering Winchester, which has the reputation for suiting boys with a quieter personality

Thank you all, really interesting replies. I do have reservations about him being shy, though paradoxically that is also why I'm drawn to Eton as it might give him confidence.

I've got the prospectus and will study it further.

Thanks also for the tip re: Winchester. Unfortunately I once snogged a rather unattractive (I was 15 and desperate!) Wykehamist which ridiculously has always coloured my view. I think I need to reconsider!

Thanks all!

I think Winchester is definitely worth considering.
I know lots of Wykehamists, and the "type" is definitely one of quiet, smart but quirky boys.
I also know a lot of OEs, and although they are all extremely accomplished and very very charming, I do find them, on the whole, terribly fake.
Yes, Eton must open up an awful lot of opportunities for the boys, but personally I wouldn't want my son going there - mostly because his personality doesn't seem to match with what I consider to be the Eton mould.

If the OEs that you know are not clever, then why do you think it would be a good school for your son who you say is pretty bright?
If you think that because your OE friends aren't bright then the entrance exam can't be difficult, then you are very much mistaken.

Fair enough Dapple, I think I worded that pretty badly. Sorry to offend.

And thanks TeaandHobnobs - opening up the Good Schools Guide right now! x

Oh, and there is no such thing as an Eton 'mould' by the way...

Don't rely solely on the prospectus. The website is constantly updated with illuminating nuggets of information.

Perhaps it's not helpful to hang out with OEs who are not representative of the boys currently there; in saying you'd hope the school would give him confidence you are slightly turning things upside down. I honestly don't think an evidently unconfident boy would get through the admissions process.

But you do have a decent amount of time to see how your son's personality develops.

Boys at preps that regularly send to the school have the fun of working towards CE/KS with their friends rather than alone - but I don't think it makes any significant difference once there. I do think there's an advantage in having boarded at prep - but obviously lots of boys don't and still thrive as boarders at senior school.

This year roughly half of the new 13+ entrants took the KS. I'd imagine at least a similar proportion of state school applicants, if not more, work towards the New Foundation Scholarships - so there can't be much room for anyone in either group who isn't prepared to put in quite a bit of effort. But you certainly don't have to be a genius!

Hah. Coming after the posts above mine it looks as if I'm disagreeing about the level of cleverness required. I'm not of course.

I also was tempted to ask why you'd want your DS to go to a place whose alumni you hold in such scant regard. But I'm sure by now you've realised how much things have changed.

Hobnobs From my experience of current pupils (in addition to OEs) I can honestly say that if they leave the school charming and accomplished it's because they entered with those qualities. I don't think the school can be blamed.

Hope you have a lovely weekend Gruach!

No offence taken riverside - very best of luck to your DS if you decide to go down the Eton route.
I would highly recommend that you do - that school was the making of my ds.

I wouldn't let quite shy be an issue for an 8 year old, lots of children that age are quite shy rather than irritatingly precocious. Unless he's crippled by shyness, he should grow in confidence at the right school and, as you say, Eton, or any good secondary school, may well be the making of him. My dd was a mouse before moving to her current school but her growing maturity and its ethos have transformed her.

Thanks Indrid! I hope everyone else does too, brief though it is.

Thank you areyoutheregod that's v helpful and interesting and encouraging x

”I know quite a few OEs and I've got to say they're not exactly all of them the sharpest tools in the box. They're confident, charming, at ease, blah blah, but certainly not my cleverest friends, by a long chalk.”

Rather like someone meeting up with Boris Johnson for the first time, I guess. But hey, don’t be fooled is all I can say.

”And appalling handwriting, but hopefully he's getting better.”

If he’s anything like my DS at 8 years old, it’s quite unlikely the handwriting will get any better. I still struggle desperately even now, 14 years later, to read DS’s written notes to me. I’ve always wondered how throughout the years his teachers and especially examiners marking his scripts could read what he’s written. Quite obviously they could - but maybe with a lot of patience - as he seems to get top marks in those scripts each time. I call atrocious handwriting a ‘doctor’s handwriting’ and true to form, DS is more than half way to becoming a doctor. So don’t despair, your DS may be having much more under his bonnet than you can ever imagine.

Thank you Peteneras. Interesting re: writing. I think it belies his intelligence so am keen to sort before he starts applying anywhere.

Talking to my stepbrother, whose boys have recently left Eton, I feel rather optimistic that he might do well, despite his shyness, so may look into it further. One of his was vvv shy, and got in, and left not very long ago, his confidence transformed.

Eton's still on my list - thanks so much for all helpful comments! x

OP contrary to what the school itself says and what others have suggested above, it is important to prepare for the pre-test. My observation of many boys who have taken the test is that those who have lots of practice with reasoning tests (verbal and non-verbal) are more successful with the Eton test. As your son's school might not prepare boys for 11+, it will be important for him to do lots of puzzle-solving tests on his own. There are lots of web-based tests some free and some requiring a monthly or annual fee and they tend to be fun. While the test is intended to judge raw ability and "potential", boys who have done a lot of puzzle/VR/NVR practice will all other things being equal -- do better on the test than those who have not had similar practice.
Good luck!

It's an interesting point tippi.

Asking a boy in his first term now he would definitely say nothing particular required for the pre-test he took three years ago. On the other hand a fair proportion of boys taking it would have undertaken the preparation you suggest in order to get into their prep schools. So would be reasonably familiar with that kind of thing anyway. But I've never taken the test and no boy I know can ever give chapter and verse on what they were required to do!

BTW when you say "more successful" do you mean scoring highly in the computerised test or actually getting in?

Yes, I would concur with the point that your DS would need to be familiar with the format of computer based VR/NVR tests. If you watch this film from the website, it gives an idea of what the test is like.

I would also add that maths is very important, so if his maths is weak you may want to top that up with a bit of extra coaching.

My understanding is that the computer test is user specific - it gets progressively harder depending on cumulative performance. Essentially it will break everyone by the end so your DS will always feel deflated as he should reach a level that he's challenged by.

But the admissions department reject a lot of boys who perform well in the test - Eton requires more than a good cognitive ability score.

From my DS's experience, I would strongly recommend not tutoring. If your DS needs tutoring to get in, he won't thrive there - especially if he's on the timid side.

Eton has changed so much - once upon a time it was mostly posh English boys. Now every aspirational parent in the world wants it.... Entrance (so I am told) has become a total crapshoot. Many many stunningly bright boys do not get in. Entrance requirements have been increased, and nowadays there are two or three pre tests! I'd say DC needs to be very bright overall and have something he really excels in to demonstrate a possible touch of genius. Plus the school culture is sporty and favours natural born leaders, so that too. I think unless you can really say he is stunning at something then I'd not bother.....

Winchester - ha! Even harder to get in to!

Try Charterhouse?

Needanadult - as far as I know there is only one pre test, plus interview and head's report from previous school.
I really don't think a "touch of genius" is required - Eton wants intelligent boys who will contribute to the school but they don't have to be geniuses. (Though there are some outstandingly clever boys, and fine musicians and rowers etc).