Seriously worried about ds's writing - so weak. What to do?

[nicoleshitzinger]

DS has just started in year 7. He's a September birthday, so has just turned 12. His writing has always been his weakest subject and I have to confess we've not really dealt with it at home, just left it for his primary school to work on. My only excuse for not doing it is that we've had a lot of problems with his older sister, and he has a younger autistic brother who's hard work, and that most of my available effort and time has gone to supporting him with his music learning and practice. He's been so resistant to tackling his weak writing that I've not found the strength to get round it.

He left primary with a 4a in his writing, which is not good for a bright child who is one of the oldest in the year. (I'm assuming he's reasonably bright - he's got a high reading age, plays two instruments at grade 5, and got a 6 in his maths SATS with no input from us). I'm flogging myself about it now as the chickens seem to be coming home to roost. He's struggling with homework and getting himself into a real stew about doing it. His sentence construction and punctuation is weak, and he doesn't seem to be willing (or know how) to develop his ideas on paper.

The awful thing is that I was an English teacher for 10 years, and I've simply done fuck all with him to sit down and work with him to address this issue in a systematic way - basically because he's so resistant to being told anything or to being made to stick at a task. It's hard enough just getting him to do his music practice and basic homework, let alone additional work on top of this.

I appreciate the view that children should start being independent with homework and that it shouldn't involve a lot of parental input, but if we don't intervene he would be happy to always do the absolute bare minimum, and do it very badly at that.

I'm now sitting down to help him with his homework every night and every time it's ending up with him shrieking and thundering out of the room in response to being asked to do more than the absolute crap minimum. An example - 3 weeks ago he was set a task to write a diary entry describing a day in the life of a perfect citizen. He started it last night, wrote about 100 words in huge type, and said 'I've done it'. I read it through and there were literally 2 or three mistakes in every line - mainly failure to use capitals, sentencing errors, and missing words. He also hadn't developed any of his ideas at all.

I asked him to print it off and we would go through it and make the corrections together and talk about what more we could add to it. His response was to shout and storm off. Apparently I think his work is 'crap' and it's not fair because he tried really hard. I know that he didn't try hard. Or maybe that he doesn't know what 'trying hard' means. It doesn't mean dashing something off in 15 minutes, not reading it through or making any corrections.

Wondering if anyone else has been in this situation and managed to help their child make big strides with their literacy, and what it would take. I know a tutoring session with a qualified teacher would help, but can't justify the money when I can do it myself - if he lets me!

DD1 struggles/struggles with writing, both the physical aspects and thinking of ideas. Assessed to have dyspraxia finally in y11.

Anyway here are things we tried, all of which helped to some extent:

1. Her dictating to me, I write it down, she copies out. This helped with adding detail as she didn't have to concentrate on thinking and writing at the same time

2. Planning work in advance, using bullet points or mind maps. Again she saw the main points and then also the added detail before starting to write. We would review the plan before the writing to ensure enough was included.

3. Not focussing on both content and spelling/punctuation in the same piece of work. For each work choose one or the other to start with. Otherwise you are nagging about everything.

4. Agreeing expectation with respect to length in advance. e.g. Must be 200-250 words long.

5. Discussing how to extend ideas. e.g. using because or for example. Or saying only one point in any sentence, not accidentally saying everything all in one go. basic Point, Evidence Explain really.

"Her dictating to me, I write it down, she copies out. This helped with adding detail as she didn't have to concentrate on thinking and writing at the same time"

I find this really, really helpful.

I agree with what you're saying about punctuation etc, but that necessitates doing the piece quite a long way before the deadline, so we can come back to it separately and address it. Problem is that he's not doing the homework on the night it's set so he's rushing it. I think this is something we'll have to deal with.

Re: agreeing length, I think one of the problems is that it's not being specified in many of the homework tasks. I think I need to talk to his teachers and ask them to be very specific about what's required.

Problem is that he'll ALWAYS take the least challenging option. So if the task says 'at least one paragraph' he'll just write one paragraph. If there's an extension suggestions (there usually is) he'll ignore it, because he thinks that's for the 'swotty' children.

Does he read a lot? I think people who read a lot naturally will write better.

As far as helping him yourself - don't beat yourself up. My mother was an engineer who briefly taught maths. She would sit down with me to try and help me with maths... that was awful. It went nowhere. In my memory - in my perception - my mother was angry and disappointed with me when we did that. She may not have been, but that is what I remember feeling. Not helpful at all.

You may wish to look into a tutor, however. Someone who sparks him and makes him want to write.

Mutton, he reads, but mainly non-fiction. We still read to him and he really likes some fiction (loved the Wonder series). Not a voracious reader though.

It would be great to have a tutor but the cost! Already spending £200 a month on music lessons...

Yeah - a tutor could well cost a fair amount of money.

My DS sounds similar to yours - writes the bare minimum. His punctuation and grammar seem OK but he definitely takes the easy way out. And I worry because essays are such a large part of the testing in this country.

Perhaps, then, you can just dangle big carrots and ask him to write essays (and submit to your corrections/critiques) in return for something he really wants.

Realised that in point 1 I said 'copies out'. That happened sometimes, but more often I would dictate back. This way the spelling and punctuation was still DD's (mainly).

It might be worthwhile taking him for a assessment.We did this for Ds 1 after a comment from the local prep school head.He was dyslexic with a writing speed of 55% 0f the norm.His spelling,punctuation,sentencing is poor but his creative ideas are good.He was kept in at breaktime last year as he didn't write enough ( year 6).He is also very creative and musical.

What is his school like? Afterall it is their responsibility to teach. Could you schedule a meeting with his head of year or English teacher and see what they plan on doing to help him.

Sorry if not practical suggestion. My eldest hasn't started secondary yet.

Don't be too hard on yourself, I was a child who refused to accept ANY help from my parents...a teacher and a one time Oxbridge prof. I also know one of my own children refuses help from DH and me whilst another actively seeks our advice. If you could stretch to a tutor then I wouldn't feel guilty because you should be able to do it yourself; this is about him being willing to accept your help.

My son & yours are twins, nicole! Just started year 7, level 4a on writing last year - but scraping a level 6 on maths, and all his teachers have reported he's bright - just can't get things on paper.
We did do a dyslexia test - but he came in as only mildly dyslexic - but his big struggles are:

• handwriting (still hard to read - although he can form all letters perfectly if writing separately) and finger spaces
• basic grammar still evades him - of the full stops and capital letters type. He's actually better at more complex grammar
• hates, hates, hates writing anything down
• and like yours he will always do the bare minimum if it involves words on a page. 3-5 paragraphs = 3 short paragraphs!

We also had homework battles for the last two weeks - until I said 'Right, I'm not fighting you anymore. You do it, or you don't. If you don't, you'll get detentions'. He is very, very law abiding - so 15 mins later was upstairs working, and that made a huge difference - I think he needed me to stop fighting him - then he had to take responsibility! It's still not as good/polished as I would maybe want, but there's been a big difference. We use lots of mindmapping/audio recording too - but with mixed success to be honest.

He had a tutor (well, a friendly local primary teacher!) for a while last term, and I have done myself a deal that by the end of this week I'm going to ring up a handwriting specialist, and also his writing tutor and get them back in place. I can see that if we don't get it sorted soon, then it's really going to impact on lots of his lessons, as getting things written down gets so much more important at secondary. It's scary stuff, tbh ...

Just to say we are in almost exactly the same situation with DS 11. Bright, curious, geeky, voracious reader, left handed, musical. 4 hours of cajoling shouting and tears to get one page of history homework at 3words a line, almost no capitalisation and wandering lines and margins. I wonder is it some kind of dyslexia or is it very common in y7 boys?

My son is identical & now in yr 8. We have a teacher tutoring him 1 hr a week (£25). In fact his tutor is his english teacher this year which is very helpful! I don't battle with homework any more, he's learning more with his tutor (I hope!)

I think the trouble is the motivation. If OP's DS want to do well academically, then when he find out that his writing is helding him back, then he would put effort in and welcom OP's imput. Does he see that his writing has caused low mark on his homework or exam?

If he is willing to improve, for a bright boy, it won't take that long to improve the grammar of his writing.

My DS1 always write very short, but he doesn't make mistake on grammar etc, and he always write every point needed and display it structurely. So he always get high marks for his work.

I have no suggestions OP but just wanted to say I sympathise -my DS (also 11, just into Y7 but young for the year, late summer birthday) is very much of the 'do the bare minimum' mindset, can make really silly mistakes with grammar and punctuation and becomes really slapdash. And then explodes into tears at any hint of constructive criticism.

He came out of Y6 with level 5s for reading, writing and SPAG (though quite frankly you wouldn't know it looking at his work sometimes) but getting even vaguely decent quality written work out of him now can be really hard sometimes.

In DS's case I know some of the frustrations and difficulties are due to SEN - he has Aspergers, ADD and can find writing physically challenging as he tends to hold the pen so hard.

We are very much struggling with things at the moment so I don't have any helpful suggestions to make but I'm going to try out a few of the ideas suggested here with DS.

Oh and don't feel guilty about not doing more than you have. It's very hard when you are trying to split yourself between 3 DC. I sometimes feel that in trying to invest time in all three of mine I end up failing to help any of them properly.

OP, maybe you can try to get him to write correctly first. So your DS won't feel it's a big mountain to climb. Then you can help him to list all the ideas. It is fine to be short as long as you have include all the points that required. Maybe the work will looks a bit boring, but for a boy who is not enjoying writing, I think the most important is to make sure the writing is enough for his other subjects, like history, RS ect.

DS1 is Yr 8 but a similar age to your DS as he is a summer birthday. He has dysgraphia so handwriting is a challenge. DS2 is younger and dyslexic. I often scribe or type for them. Sometimes they copy it out but some teachers have accepted work in my handwriting (because DS1's can be v hard to read). The advantage of dictation is that it stops the manual act of writing being a barrier to doing the work.

I agree with setting minimum expectations e.g. write 150 words is better than write a paragraph (which could be 3 short sentences). It would be useful if teachers did that.

What is the ethos in his school, the swotty kids comment made me wonder. It it cool to learn or hopelessly uncool.

As both of your other DC have issues that impact their learning is it possible your DS has a SpLD? It would fit in with his written ability being out of line with his more general abilities.

See if you can get the tutor to do the homework with ds sometimes, which would save you all a lot of time and aggravation.

This sounds just like my DS - very good at Maths but seemed to have almost a fear of writing. English homework would be hours & hours of torture for all of us resulting in only a small amount of work. His Year 2 teacher said she once sat & watched him spend 20 minutes writing just 2 lines. All came to a head in Year 6 when he just wasn't able to cope with all the writing in preparation for SATS. At that point we took him to a private psychologist which was expensive but she diagnosed 'difficulties of the dyslexic type' & possibly some ADD. She recommended he be allowed to use a laptop in class & for homework & exams & the school agreed. This made all the difference & he was able to produce a lot more work of better quality. Coming up to GCSE English we got him a tutor who really turned him around & he managed to get A in both Lang & Lit. Interestingly now he's applying for Maths at uni I've noticed it seems almost normal for a lot of mathematicians to be like this. I think the system of testing for special needs & what extra allowances are made is all a bit different in schools now & I'm not sure they pay so much attention to private psychologist reports but it would be worth mentioning the possibility of a learning difficulty to the school & maybe experimenting with him typing instead of writing. My DS also sometimes used a voice-recognition program which he found helpful.

I think you are being a bit unreasonable.He is really good at maths, good at music, the poor lad shouldn't be beaten up because he , although above the expected level, does not excel at one thing.
I am telling you now, if you start getting pushing him with this, you are running the very real risk of turning him off education.I have seen this happen many times with boys.You have to let him own his learning and not interfere unless he asks you.He is an 11 year old boy, his style of writing will mature as he matures.

In the dinosaur age when I was at school we went through our English story/written work 3 times. Once free-flowing with all the mistakes you make. Second reading though it for punctuation and grammar and making adjustments. Third time in best handwriting.

Actually I agree with brioche. His English is slightly above the expected level for his year group - it's just that he's exceptional at Maths! Very few dcs achieve high levels in all subjects but for your son this has been highlighted relatively early in his secondary school life.
Actually would back off for now and try to find out more about what strategies the school has in place to make sure that pupils (particularly boys) have in place to make sure he reaches a higher standard in his English writing.
At some point soon, the penny will drop that unless his writing improves, he won't achieve as well as he should and will ask for help. What is debateable (depends very much on the child) is whether the parent is the best person to offer this or another adult e.g. school teacher or tutor. Often teenagers/preteens prefer to ask other adults and peers rather than parents. So you could offer to help, but if he refuses then simply back off and let him hand in the work that he has done by himself. Perhaps if the teacher gives this a low mark, he will appreciate what you are doing more and ask you for help.

Snap. My son has gone into year 8, ended year 7 on a 6a in maths, 6b in science and a 5a in English. His handwriting is dreadful, his sentences are stilted and don't flow and his grammar is basic. He knows it all, his CAT scores put him in the top 5% but he simply cannot get what is in his head on to paper. He also has a total mental block about English. We have just started with a tutor and I can already see that she is really going to help him move forward.

I think that given the problem is having a big impact on his life at school, and you are not making progress, maybe it would be best addressed in the first instance by a professional - especially as you are (understandably!) short of time. I realise you are stretched already with paying for music tuition but one thing to bear in mind is that a focussed intervention over a relatively short period of time may help your son get to the level where he is more comfortable and able and less frustrated, and then you can support him in a way that works for him, and perhaps even leave him to get on with it. (Whereas you will be paying for music lessons for the duration.) For the DIY approach, you might be interested in the following programme I ran into on Amazon www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1855033860/ - it sounds really interesting. Our son has similar issues - although he is not talented at music! - and I am looking at trying this progamme out. Getting your son to participate might be tricky as he has already built up a resistance to the whole topic. And sounds like you simply do not have the time. For these reasons working with a professional at the beginning might be really helpful - they will provide a switch of context, and should be able to provide tailored exercises that build confidence as well as ability.

What music does he do and does he do that willingly?