Applications for secondary, what to look out for in bog standard comps (very academic ds)

[iamnotaponceyloudperson]

Private schools are out. We live about an hour (by bus) away from a group of super selectives and DS has been preparing for these and has a good chance but regardless of outcome I think I am ruling them out on the basis of distance..suburban traffic can mean the multiple buses needed could make these journeys horrendous and DS has health issues which can be exacerbated by tiredness. I'm not so convinced that the superselectives actually change the outcomes for individuals to the extent that I want to add to the worries about DS.

So that leaves 3 comps which he is in with a chance of getting. They are not dire schools but neither are they the kind of school you would fight to get into. DS was level 5b across the board at the end of Yr5 despite a long period of absence so he is high achieving. I am concerned that he is encouraged to reach his potential.

What should I be looking out for when prioritising the schools? All of them are single sex and journeys differences are not significant enough to influence either way. All rated good, but 2 of them changed from satisfactory only a few years ago after becoming academies. Results for one are significantly better but not sure that is enough to base the decision on.

I agree with tiggytape - look for the pastoral support and caring, nurturing environment. For the academic side, maybe what the options are for 2 languages/triple science/early entry exams (can they retake these if dont achieve highest grade)

If you dig further into the results pages for each school then you'll see the outcomes for High/Medium/Low achiever cohorts and that might tell you a lot.

I'd also ask how many kids go on to Oxbridge and Russell Group universities.
Nothing to do with your specific expectations but just to see if the school is able to help children to reach their potentials.

Mediocre result schools can be fantastic for high achievers; because they don't get as many of them, school really looks after them. And big fish in little pond privileges.

Talk to parents of older kids who are similar to yours and went to those comps, and see how they get on, what the schools did well or not.

TBH all three sound on paper perfectly fine - so maybe the best bet is to go along with your ds to open days and see which one he prefers?
We were in a similar situation in that there are two local schools - neither obviously better (eg one has better results but very overcrowded buildings), at which point the best bet seemed to visit with dd and see which she preferred.

I guess as well it will depend on what your ds is looking for - clubs were an important factor for dd, for example, and one school obviously makes them much more of a priority. In the end I think most of us have to expect that we don't get a perfect school, but most dc will do just fine providing they're reasonably happy and supported at home.

Most good comps will do extension activities for more able students. I looked for things like entering national inter school maths and science competitions, what universities children go on to. Look beyond the pass rate and see how many are for more academic subjects. Do they do teach sciences separately. Do they offer debating, orchestras, drama etc and aim to produce rounded children. Often confidence is as important as academic achievement so opportunities to develop that through sport, drama etc. Having said that we have sent a shy and v academic boy to a smaller private school on a bursary. We applied to 3 private schools and he got offered bursaries at all of them. It does mean you have to live on a limited income but might be worth looking at with those grades.

Don't just look at GCSE results look at added value. That shows how much progress the students have made regardless of levels when they start.
My two both went to a bog standard comp, by which I mean achieving around 65% A* to C EM.
In fact it went into special measures when DS1 was in Y8. It was later rated good. The school has a very low percentage of pupil premium students and is small for a comp (around 600).
They were setted in Maths from day one and in everything else from Y8.
Both found a nice group of other academic DC and both came out with 11 GCSEs all A*A.

Is there streaming?
The headteacher - newish? Dynamic or just plodding?
Extra curricula stuff, availability of trips, languages choice, GCSE options offered.

I'd agree with looking in a bit more detail at the schools. Just for example, dd's school has the reputation of being good for pupils with SENs and is also fully accessible which the other local school isn't. As a result it has a much higher %ge of pupils with SENs and I strongly suspect also a higher %ge of pupils with health issues which does reduce the headline exam rate and increase absence figures (which appear to be an ESTYN/OFSTED obsession). But obviously that doesn't impact on other pupils outcomes - and I think also it makes the school a nicer place to be for everyone in that it is a more varied & representative community.

I would go to the open evenings/days and see what the feel of each place is. You might have a feel for which one is right for him which you can then use in your decision.

I guess one of the key questions is how does the school challenge higher ability students. Not just bolt-on "gifted and talented" stuff but the general provision.

I detest the term 'bog standard comps'- how rude....

Do all the schools have sixth forms or are some 11-16 only? Schools with sixth forms tend to prepare pupils better for A level.

Ignore the ofsted rating and read the reports. Ignore whatever a-c % you see, and look at both which subjects and what the actual grades are. One with a huge proportion of c grades, a few as and the low achievers on e or lower, with few gaining other grades would really put me off. As it usually indicates their aim is % pass rate, and the as come from the few most able who've done it without support and the struggling kids have been discarded as not beneficial to league tables. A school with a smaller pass rate, but a more representative spread of grades would make me think they are teaching for individual best, not just the average group for league tables.
Ask about their provision for kids at both ends of the spectrum. I found the schools that care about a child who won't help league tables, still get the best results for them anyway, also care about the kids who are easily going to get a pass. Which matched up with local knowledge.
Ditto advice about triple science. Be wary of any school that replies to your questions on able provision by talking about the numerous vocational subjects your ds can do.
Ditto advice about value added. And do comparisons of % Sen, fsm, eal when comparing the results. And ask about how differentiation works even within a set.

You may get a general feel from the school without even asking - we looked at two. One school kept mentioning how they help those that struggle and not one teacher showed interest in our DD. The other school welcomed us, were clearly proud of their pupils, had plenty of pupils around to ask questions, lots of work was on display and two teachers actually made a point of speaking to DD either telling her what sort of things they study in Year 7 or actually showing her work Year 7s had done.

I'd want to know if they achieve above average grades for GCSEs. As said before can they offer triple science, as well as English Language and Literature. I'd also be interested to know how many GCSEs they sit in Years 10 and 11 - a high achiever will be sitting 10/11 - my DD will be doing 11.

Also, how they stretch the ones who are more academic - ask to see what sort of homework they set them in the summer holidays prior to starting the school - will it stretch your DS - I thought my DDs was hard. Ask if your son can look at work/text books for the Year 7s, see how he feels about it.

Thanks for the replies, really really helpful. Sorry to have posted and run, we've had a family pet emergency!

Does anyone know if streaming and setting are essentially the same thing?

Streaming - children are put in groups for all, or a whole collection of subjects (Maths and Science and Music and..; then seperately English and MFL and History and...).
Setting children are put in groups based on ability in that subject.

My DCs' school is fabulous, only sets at all in year 7 in Maths, in year 8 Maths, MFL and Science and broad groupings in English; other subjects taught in mixed ability. They get 9-13 to Oxbridge each year, and another group to Medical Schools.

I would also ask about extra curricula activities and local competitions (looking for Science Clubs, Debating clubs, and things like Formula 1 in schools, even if you child might not want these they do show dedicated staff and a cohort of keen students).

I know one girl went to a super selective 1 hour away, and within two terms had dropped out into a local Comp., because the journey was just too tiring.

They tend not to call it streaming, but more "pathways" and "personalised curriculums". What this can mean is that those in the less able pathway have a narrower curriculum (although this will be changing as all must do the Ebacc).

Things to look for OP.

Early and rigorous setting. Some schools talk of the joy of mixed ability teaching. It is not optimal for able children.

Triple science. Some schools don't offer it. Avoid.

MFL. How many are taught. By who ( some schools get teachers to overs stretch to a second language).

Clubs. Are there maths clubs, engineers clubs, debating societies etc

What % are high ability. You need a decebt sized cohort of peers.

How do those pupils perform. What % A* at GCSE.

What sort of destination do U6 have. Can you see highly competitive courses at selective universities.

What sort of support is there for GCSE options. When does it kick in.

What is "rigorous" setting?

Early and in the majority of subjects, rather than the 'oh we set in maths and science' approach too many schools use.

And I disagree with SheGotAllDaMoves - in fact I didn't choose one school in town because it streamed, and choose one that sets only in Maths in year 7, and then slowly sets in other subjects. The school I choose achieves extremely highly, the standard of top sets is higher (because it is a bigger school), and it does very well by its brightest pupils (and its less bright).

Thanks again, the school I have the most positive feeling about due to pastoral care is the one which has an expected progress for high attainers of only 75%, the others are 90+% and have better overall results, but I worry because they are huge and feel alot more rough and ready. DS is very sensitive and can't get involved in lots of sport because of his health and I really really worry he might sink in these rougher environments.

Only 75% of high attainers making expected progress is worrying isn't it?

Only 75% of high attainers making expected progress is worrying isn't it?
This is in-line with national statistics see BBC article www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-22873257.
The trouble is that some primary schools coach children extensively for level 5 SATs and these children haven't really reached the required standard by the time they reach secondary school but are still expected to achieve good grades at GCSE.
A "gut feeling" can be good but please visit the schools themselves with your ds and ask some of these questions. I used to try to picture dd at this school wearing the uniform etc.
Agree that the medical condition is significant and you may need to dig deeper to find out which school would best meet his needs.