Applications for secondary, what to look out for in bog standard comps (very academic ds)

[iamnotaponceyloudperson]

Private schools are out. We live about an hour (by bus) away from a group of super selectives and DS has been preparing for these and has a good chance but regardless of outcome I think I am ruling them out on the basis of distance..suburban traffic can mean the multiple buses needed could make these journeys horrendous and DS has health issues which can be exacerbated by tiredness. I'm not so convinced that the superselectives actually change the outcomes for individuals to the extent that I want to add to the worries about DS.

So that leaves 3 comps which he is in with a chance of getting. They are not dire schools but neither are they the kind of school you would fight to get into. DS was level 5b across the board at the end of Yr5 despite a long period of absence so he is high achieving. I am concerned that he is encouraged to reach his potential.

What should I be looking out for when prioritising the schools? All of them are single sex and journeys differences are not significant enough to influence either way. All rated good, but 2 of them changed from satisfactory only a few years ago after becoming academies. Results for one are significantly better but not sure that is enough to base the decision on.

Go and ask them questions, don't assume.
Near me DCs school is big, 2000 ish but is very good at making special provision for those who need it. There is always somewhere someone can be "in school" during breaks for example (and several homework clubs run during breaks).
One of the smaller schools, which can seem "more caring" on the other hand turfs everyone into the playground during breaks, even though its playgrounds are rather over crowded.
Then the other smaller school, has limited library opening hours and there is much more football played across playground in break times.

Unless you'd visited these schools extensively or worked there you would be unlikely to know this.

Ask what GCSE and A level results their top 30 students got and in what.
Ask how many sports are involved with inter school competition
Ask what arts / music / drama outreach / linkage they have with other schools.
Ask about setting good or streaming bad

Remember that the kids who are there on the open evening are the cream of the crop : the PITA students won't be there.

Ask about exclusions and bullying : if they say its not a problem, they are lying

Ask who runs the after school activities : as if its parents they are more likely to keel over

Statistics are only part of it, remember in a smaller school the difference in percentages will mean a few pupils and there can be really good reasons why they didn't achieve. The percetnage of high achievers will be often be about 30% of the cohort, so no 75% isn't that worrying especially in a smaller school Look at their results news do they get pupils with strings of A/A*s?

Statistics give you a starting point but with small numbers are fairly unreliable and teenagers don't always conform to the government's expected progress especially when life can get in the way.

I don't know anyone whose done this, but would it be possible to make a separate appointment with each school for a visit with your son. Then he can get a less staged feel for the school away from the bustle of Open Day, and also you can assess how the staff relate to him. Does the head regard this kind of visit as intrusive, a nuisance or a real chance to meet a keen pupil? YKWIM.

Any decent school : be they comp, sec mod, grammar, special, fee paying, international
should be perfectly willing for somebody to book to come and look around
ideally they would be shown around by a prefect

BUT
there would have to be a reason why you'd not attended the open day (moving into the area being the most common)
as its disruptive for teachers to have waifs and strays in corridors

DCs school has tours on a weekly basis in addition to the "admissions tours". Another local school organises tours throughout the year on request.

Both are busy and over subscribed. The times it would be less welcome are: exam season and September/October as they are busy enough (but if you can't make the tour they will try to accommodate).

My ds state school in a multi cultural inner city only set for languages and maths. Everything else is mixed ability teaching. They have best results in the LEA. The English results are fantastic and the head of dept is a passionate advocate of mixed ability teaching. My ds is off to a top russell group uni but he wouldn't have been top set in Eng at 11 yrs. I disagree mixed ability teaching doesn't suit the more able pupil. I believe the most important factors in the individual's success ( emotional,social and academic ) are quality of teaching, parental support and peer group.

I would look for ease of travelling to the school, not the distance. A 30 minute journey without changes, is easier than a 25 minute journey with one or more changes.

Does the school,have streams for tops sets (known as grammar streams in this area)

What clubs does the school,have, and how active are they?

What's your gut feeling as you look around the school? Some schools can feel right for your child, others feel wrong.

Homework - how much and how often?

English is often better mixed ability. Maths is not.

Another thing you could ask is whether all subjects are taught by specialists, including at KS3. Humanities is a common area for non-specialists to pick up classes, and the effect this has on progress in geography and history- and the knock on effect at GCSE- was mentioned in a report by Ofsted earlier this week. Currently in my school there are even some non-specialists teaching Maths due to the teacher shortage.

Mixed ability English classes are usually better for low/middle achievers.

High achievers may still do well in their GCSEs because, frankly, the best marks come from highly prescriptive answers.

That does not mean their day to day experience of English lessons will be optimal. Which in turn impacts upon English as a subject at A level and university.

"Does anyone know if streaming and setting are essentially the same thing?

Just seen this- no it's not.

Steaming means you do all your subjects with the same group-often determined by your ability in one particular subject. Which might mean you're in the right place for maths, but out of your depth (or bored rigid) in English. Setting means you are put in ability groups for individual subjects.

I detest the term 'bog standard comps'- how rude....
Totally agree SecentedJasmine. It's offensive and cheap.

Ask questions around pastoral care, ethos, extension activities for more able. Visit a couple of times and get a feel for them - visit on a working school day if possible.

Look at outcomes for high attaining children as that is where your child currently sits. Also check out how well the school meets the needs of low attainters - can be very telling.

DS school streams from the start - based on performance in fair banding test and tweak based on CAT tests taken in first weeks. y8 they set within the stream for Maths, Science, Art, MFL.

I was in similar situation this time last year, in that grammar schools were out as my DS was adamant he didn't want to go to one and all the local comps are currently RI. My son is also able, particularly in maths.

Whilst Oftsed is only a small part of everything that needs to be considered, I would take the time to read the reports for all the available schools. If someone had taken the gradings off the reports I read, you would never have believed they were all the same grade. One of the reports read well and nothing within it alarmed me, others were dreadful. I also read the report specifically with DS in mind and what would suit him best. If your son is a high achiever, I would definitely take in to account the % of children who made the expected progress in this area.

DS started High School last Monday and so far has settled really well and is loving it. Take your son with you to visit and make sure you find a school you will both be happy with.

BlanketSky makes a really great point about subject specialists.

We are extremely fortunate that at DS school they have subject specislists for history, geography and RE at KS3. They are passionate about their subjects and this is infectious. My son has the Head of history for y8 (had him last year too) and experienced specialists for the other humanities. We were a bit concerned that y8 would be a year of coasting. I don't think that will be the case!

I'd also be interested to know how many GCSEs they sit in Years 10 and 11 - a high achiever will be sitting 10/11 - my DD will be doing 11.

Going off the point but when I was at school (centuries ago, it feels) our highest of high attainters - those aspiring to Oxbridge, medicine, law - sat 8, possibly 9 O levels tops.

Children at my DS school sat 12, 13, 14 last year. Madness imho.

"I'd also be interested to know how many GCSEs they sit in Years 10 and 11 - a high achiever will be sitting 10/11 - my DD will be doing 11.

Not so. Many high achievers do 9. No need to any more.

I agree with Bertrand. Far better to have 9 at A and A* than 11 with Bs and Cs amongst them.

One thing we learnt was to unpick things they say are their strengths.

One of the schools that we looked round has a great reputation, and we always assumed we'd send ours there, but when we actually looked at the things they said we realised a lot of things were gimmicks or would never affect our dc.
For example, they said a lot about their fantastic school trips. New York, Moscow, here there and everywhere, they'd help with finance if it was an issue.
When asked these trips were almost entirely invitation only, taking between 1 and 4 pupils. On the basis they take around 300 per year the chance is very high that your dc will never be invited to go on any.

This sounds like a little thing, but we went through everything, and all their positives were like that.
Oh, except for the claim they had no bullying, which is odd because I can name half a dozen who have left over the last 2 years without thinking due to bullying. I think it translates as "if anyone says they're being bullied we either blame them or refuse to admit it so we can say there's no bullying".

Interestingly that schools GCSE results (and A-levels but the 6th form are very small due to very good colleges in the area) have been poor compared to the other schools in the area in the last 2 years. Particularly of interest is that the school has released statements blaming the exam boards, government and anything else they can think of. Rather strange because the exam boards, government and anything else they have mentioned are the same at the other schools who are celebrating better than usual results.

But their reputation is still up there until people actually have children start there and then they realise too late

I would be interested in extra curricular activities and the opportunity for enrichment. Schools with extra curricular activities, good pastoral care and a nurturing environment would weigh heavily with me.

You might want to consider the size of the school too- some children find large schools overwhelming, despite economies of scale. What opportunities are there for your DS to extend his hobbies and interests. That's important in my view.