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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Anyone else disappointed with their state choices?

204 replies

DrTinkle · 05/09/2015 14:32

It's all so bloody average around here. Schools seem to move from satisfactory to good, grades are average, bullying and low aspiration a problem. High performing kids do less well than they would at independents. No grammar schools in the area and the church school creams off most of the advantaged kids with parents who can commit to 7 years church or synagogue attendance. Everything is so oversubscribed and competitive around here, it's basically overpopulated.
We're utterly stuck living here for work and childcare reasons. I don't want DD who is bright and very capable to have the poor choices I had so faced with paying for 6 years of schooling which won't be easy.
Just a bit sad looking at Facebook friends kids going to grammars or well performing comps and thinking it just ain't fair. Anyone else care to vent?

OP posts:
DarklingJane · 07/09/2015 21:18

Would you be interested in knowing the % of parents who come to Parent's Evening in ds's school?

Yes.

I have btw come across a parent (colleague at work) some years ago , in the ilk of Shegot's post who thought that because he was paying for his daughter , it was the school's job. rubbish.

DarklingJane · 07/09/2015 21:23

Talkin - that's not encouraging Grin. But was the parents' evening turnout decent?

BertrandRussell · 07/09/2015 21:27

Glad you find it so amusing, Jane.

TalkinPeace · 07/09/2015 21:27

At DCs school I'd say parents evening turnout is around 60% in the upper years
BUT
guess which 40% are missing? : those who most need the guidance.

mandy214 · 07/09/2015 22:25

Yes of course you might. But getting yourself and your children to Church punctually on a regular basis says something about organisation and commitment and a family structure that precludes a lot of people

Seriously?! Why is getting a family to church on a Sunday by 10am (not early when you've got kids) or say a 45 min service (not particularly onerous) something that demonstrates "commitment" and "organisation" that precludes lots of people??? Sorry, just think that's a bit ridiculous.

Lurkedforever1 · 07/09/2015 22:47

mandy People with carer commitments, or who need a carer to attend with them, people with physical disability or any other reason that makes the journey there difficult, people who work Sunday's, people who work night shifts, people who'd be attending church alone with multiple dc, people who are already committed to something more important to them every Sunday morning, people who only have their kids alternate weekends, people who don't believe in organised religion etc etc. None of which prevent you from being a committed or involved parent.
I don't actually want religious schools abolished. We should just get rid of the religious criteria for a place.

mandy214 · 07/09/2015 22:56

I think we'll have to agree to disagree, feel a bit like I'm banging my head against a brick wall!

DarklingJane · 07/09/2015 23:08

Bertrand - I apologise without reservation if it came across as such. I do not find it amusing that the turnout was low for the parent governors vote . My comment was a deliberate understatement , litotes, ironic etc - hence the grin thing.Obviously misjudged. I apologise and also to Talkin if it came over as flippant.

SheGotAllDaMoves · 08/09/2015 06:45

berttand I think you've been super unlucky with your DS school. So many issues ... Sad.

I am no excuse maker for the failings in the state sector but I would say your experience is not representative.

Most patents try to support. Yes, there is an underbelly of those that really do not give a shit ( or are overloaded with other more pressing problems) but they are a minority?

Iamnotloobrushphobic · 08/09/2015 07:00

I think at some schools uninterested and unsupportive parents are in the minority but at a small number of schools they seem to be the majority.

BertrandRussell · 08/09/2015 07:09

Nope. Not unlucky. Incredibly lucky. It's an excellent secondary modern school.

I think many people are living in a bubble where parents all have the knowledge, time, resources and inclination to be involved actively in their children's education.

The fact that posters are suggesting that regularly getting a family punctually to church every Sunday is an easy thing to do and does not constitute "jumping through a hoop" is further evidence!

SheGotAllDaMoves · 08/09/2015 07:46

A school cannot be excellent when half its parent body has neither the time nor the inclination to do the bare basics for their DC's education.

That is a school that is doing its best with a missing limb.

So yes, unlucky to have to go there.

But bertrand you've spent nth years saying that state comprehensives are perfectly good. Now you're saying they what? That many parents are disinterested?

TalkinPeace · 08/09/2015 08:26

If mandy thinks that getting a family to church every week for however long it takes to get a school place is not a commitment way beyond the means of many people

particularly those who have to work so supermarkets and garden centres and tourist attractions can open at 10am on a Sunday

she is utterly deluded.

shegot
Her sons school is not a comp : we all know that.

BertrandRussell · 08/09/2015 08:33

"school cannot be excellent when half its parent body has neither the time nor the inclination to do the bare basics for their DC's education."

Gosh. There's that bubble again!

SheGotAllDaMoves · 08/09/2015 08:35

Indeed it's not a comp talkin but as you yourself are saying, even comps are populated by disinterested parents.

That those who think most parents are at least trying are living 'in a bubble' Hmm.

Rather a change of tune from you both. But hey ho.

As for commitment on Sundays, I dunno about church, but I can assure you that a million Dads can make a very firm commitment to football!

Iamnotloobrushphobic · 08/09/2015 08:38

I remember my child being at an inner city prinary school. It was a lovely school, however the majority of parents were uninvolved and uninterested. A meeting about maths was held during the first term of year 1 and almost all parents turned up, which was obviously a good sign. However, as soon as the teacher said that the children would be bringing numicons (a hands on maths learning tool) home each week and the parents needed to spend 10 mins helping their child to learn with the numicons most of the parents started complaining that they didn't have a spare 10 mins each week (a lot of them didn't work). Many of the parents left the meeting in a huff.
The attitude seems to continue into the local senior school where only 26% of children got 5 GCSEs at A-C this year.
I didn't want my child to be in such an environment where the parents were clearly not interested in investing in their child's education so I moved house. But not everyone can move house and sadly some people are stuck with poor state school choices.

SheGotAllDaMoves · 08/09/2015 08:39

That's utter crap bertrand.

A school is the sum of its parts and one of those parts is its cohort and their parents. How could it be anything else in what is essentially a community?

When that part is not playing its...part...then the school cannot be excellent. It can do the best it can do. But that's not the same.

That's not a bubble, that's just common sense.

BertrandRussell · 08/09/2015 08:40

"Indeed it's not a comp talkin but as you yourself are saying, even comps are populated by disinterested parents."

There are many parents who cannot/will not engage with their children's education for many reasons. It is unlikely that many of them are sending their children to private school. Therefore their children will be at comprehensive schools.
QED.

BertrandRussell · 08/09/2015 08:42

OK. So you are essentially saying that only selective schools can be excellent. I disagree.

SheGotAllDaMoves · 08/09/2015 08:50

No bertrand I did not say that.

I feel that selective schools offer the best environment for the most able to succeed, but that's not what we're talking about here.

What I'm saying is that a school, any school, will be sub par if it does not have a supportive parent body. You seem to be saying that this is a. prevalent and b. not linked to how good a school is.

I disagree. And if I were a parent finding myself with children in a school that did not have a (generally) supportive parent body, I could not consider it a good school and I would be pissed off!

mandy214 · 08/09/2015 09:04

Shegotalldamoves Exactly Smile. Funny that isn't it?! MN at its best! Families can manage to get their children to brownies, guides, swimming, football, whatever it is on a regular basis, presumably on time with a dollop of commitment, but show the same level of commitment to Church on a Sunday most weeks?! Hell, no Hmm!!

BertrandRussell · 08/09/2015 09:17

She. If you want the vast majority of the parent body to be actively committed and involved with their children's education, then a selective school is your only option.

Mandy. You are spectacularly missing the point.

mandy214 · 08/09/2015 09:21

No I'm not, see my posts up thread. Disagreeing with points made on various subsequent posts is not missing the point, but thanks.

SheGotAllDaMoves · 08/09/2015 09:25

bertrand so you're saying that parents sending their DC to comprehensives have to just accept that a vital part of what makes a school great will be missing?

Blimey.

BertrandRussell · 08/09/2015 09:29

"No I'm not, see my posts up thread. Disagreeing with points made on various subsequent posts is not missing the point, but thanks."

You seem to be saying that the ability to get your children church on a Sunday is being regarded as different to getting them to Brownies and Guides and so on. It isn't. It is equally difficult. The parents who can't/won't get to Church can't/won't get them to Brownies either.